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Let's share machine guns-updated
Red223
Member Posts: 7,946
I've posted this on many forums with no one saying it would be illegal, now I will share it with you for you to evaluate.
You have 12 close friends in your State. You go to the court house and file to set up a 'non profit' organization called let's say "Foxes Rifle Training" who's purpose is to train kids to be marksmen through donations from the community.
Now that you have your license you all put in $1000 and total $12,000. You use that money to purchase an M-16 and put it on paper as registered to the non-profit corporation, (tax free???). You all share that firearm and everyone gets it for one month.
Before you yell that one guy can use it more in a month than the next, then you have wear and tear on it....etc...
You can get your own Ar15 upper for $300....and use it on it when it's your month....no big deal.
so anyway to keep the Fed's off you you apply for a Grant to start a shooting range. Get the range and charge 'range maintenance fees and membership fees' to cover electricity and such. Since you can't make a profit you have a gunshop across the street in only one mans name and not the corporations. Get income from ammo sales, gun sales, etc.
What do you all think? could someone get a Class III firearm in such a manner legally?
You have 12 close friends in your State. You go to the court house and file to set up a 'non profit' organization called let's say "Foxes Rifle Training" who's purpose is to train kids to be marksmen through donations from the community.
Now that you have your license you all put in $1000 and total $12,000. You use that money to purchase an M-16 and put it on paper as registered to the non-profit corporation, (tax free???). You all share that firearm and everyone gets it for one month.
Before you yell that one guy can use it more in a month than the next, then you have wear and tear on it....etc...
You can get your own Ar15 upper for $300....and use it on it when it's your month....no big deal.
so anyway to keep the Fed's off you you apply for a Grant to start a shooting range. Get the range and charge 'range maintenance fees and membership fees' to cover electricity and such. Since you can't make a profit you have a gunshop across the street in only one mans name and not the corporations. Get income from ammo sales, gun sales, etc.
What do you all think? could someone get a Class III firearm in such a manner legally?
Comments
Legally purchase the firearm under the org's name with someone as the head of the org.
Worry about the range and such later.
I get the land appraised and let's say they say it's worth $200,000.
I get an estimate on the cost of building the gun range and let's say it's $300,000.
Total equals $500,000 for public shooting range.
I apply for a State Grant here that covers 50% to purchase the land AND construct the shooting range:
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/brc/grants/
State gives me $250,000.
I get the land for free from my grandparents, construct the range in full compliance within local ordinances, epa crap with help of family and fellow shooters.
Whammo. Free shooting range.
I'd likely find one anyways to do my taxes just to dot my i's and cross my t's.
I am currently going through the process for a class 3 right now here in my home state of Indiana.
I can tell you this unequivocably... Whomever is registered to a class 3 weapon HAS to be WITH it at all times. You cannot loan it to a friend or anybody else. In other words it has to be in eyesight at all times. When you are not using it it has to be locked up safely at home. Not in a gun cabinet but a SAFE.
The ATF has the right to check on it at any time WITHOUT prior warning in order to confirm it is on the premises and/or the registeree is with it.
Other than that technicality, it sounds like a great idea. I have a couple ideas for weapons to start with[;)]
According to the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, Title 18 United States Code, Chapter 44, Title 1, Section 921 DEFINITIONS:
.......the term 'person' is defined as an individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.
According to the National Firearms Act, Title 26 United States Code, Chapter 53, Section 5812--Transfers of Machine Guns:
must have written application for transfer and registration, must pay tax, the transferee is identified on the application, IF it's an individual then they need fingerprints and a photograph....Does NOT say a Machine Gun HAS to be transferred to a individual.
"Go to Lakedaemon, stranger passing by;
And say there, that in obedience to her law, here we lie"
Red223: You seem like a very intelligent person and even more important to me is thst you are able to think outside the box. We need more such outside the box thinking because decades of inside the box thinking has lead us to the current mess we are in. I hope any idea you come up with you will act on even if no one agrees with you at first. Because no body can argue with success. So if one of your ideas succeed, then suddenly you will get a lot of supporters and believers.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Go ahead and call a class 3 dealer and ask him what he says.
Also,I have a copy of the 2000 ATF book.
You better look closer, It does in fact say what I quoted.
But hell, go ahead and do what you like regarding lettin your buddies share(read take home) a class 3 weapon that is registered in YOUR name.
Your * will be in the can with Kazynski.And that is a fact.[:D]
Can't you read the regulations?
The local class III only submits the paperwork. ATF approves the transfer.
I forgot about that time 5 weeks ago, my dad,cousin,brother and I ALL bought a machine gun and we ALL registered it at the gun dealer on the form.I have GONE through it man.But hey do what you want.
Have fun,,,tell Ted I said hi.[;)]
must have written application for transfer and registration, must pay tax, the transferee is identified on the application, IF it's an individual then they need fingerprints and a photograph....Does NOT say a Machine Gun HAS to be transferred to a individual.
I am simply saying what my cl 3 told me.
He has been doing it for over 25 years.
Good luck
it seems pretty straightforward to me and sounds legal too
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
When you buy a regular gun, who gets their name on it??
You or your whole friggin' family?
Now what in the hell do you think? the most regulated weapon in the country is going to be allowed to be passed like an old pickup?
I will say this 1 more time also, I AM actually going through a transfer right now unlike yourself.
I Talked to a REAL class 3 dealer, AND read the book.
A fact: You will keep YOUR registered machine gun locked up in a safe or if out shooting it, within eyesight. If you allow a friend to take it home and IF the Feds come and want to check it , YOU WILL definately be spending quality time in a FEDERAL pen.Now, you are simply wrong, in your assumption that it will be o.k. to share it as far a POSSESSION. You WILL register that weapon in 1 name. And that person will be responsible for safe storage and transportation of that weapon.
Like I said, go ahead and call a class 3 and ask pal,
Or go ahead and and do your little scheme and when you see Ted, tell him hi for me.
I know, I know, a handgun or shotgun is not a machine gun and if I was interested enough I could probably search around and find the answer for myself. But I'm not that curious so does anyone have any info for me on this?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
if this were not the case there would be no way for a corp to own a machinegun.
as afra as i can tell based on the law 12 friends could create a corp and purchase a machinegun. they would have to have a corp meeting with the minutes recorded and specify who could use the machinegun and how(different upper? etc?)and agree to it as a corporate resolution. in essence all 12 are equal owners of the corp which owns the machinegun, the corp then gives them the right as shareholders to use the machinegun as a DULY APPOINTED REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CORP.corp has certain benefits such as the ability to buy and sell shares of owenership.if youve sold your shares you would not be able to use said machinegun regardless of a resolution since it must be watched over by the owner(shareholder). to sell or purchase a machinegun would also require a resloution with the minutes and corp seal so its not the simplest thing.
people do use the corp route to allow members of their family to be named as being able to posses the machinegun.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Good luck................[^]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=158292
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Before I broke some serious federal laws I would call my local ATF office and run it by them.
You may take the most gallant sailor,the most intrepid airman,or the most audacious soldier,put them together at a table.
What do you get?
The sum of their fears
-Winston Churchhill
Seek a pro-gun lawyers interpretation and guidance, not the mobs.
My thought ... it sounds like a good idea, but:
Since the Corp is an entity, it will have to have a permanent address to receive mail yada yada yada ... the weapon would have to be stored at that address so the BTAFE could come visit it anytime it felt like it, for whatever reason.
.
Chance favors the prepared mind [8D]
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
the machinegun would need to be stored someplace where it was secure as per federal regs but would no more be restricted from being taken out than an individuals machinegun.
if and when i get a rsponse i will post it here and on ar15.com but i cant see a corps ownership of a machinegun being different than another asset under commercial code.
I did call them and what I said was correct.
There is some gray area there but I was correct.
Futhermore, they were very helpful with this question AND my tranfer.[:D]
You may take the most gallant sailor,the most intrepid airman,or the most audacious soldier,put them together at a table.
What do you get?
The sum of their fears
-Winston Churchhill