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The state of our nations gun laws

navynukenavynuke Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
For some time i have been upset with the firearms laws of our nation, on both a state and federal level. More than anything i would love to see a radical simplification of our nations laws. Beginning with the compilation of old laws and passage of new, more comprehensive and modern ones which are designed to be changeable in order to reduce legal 'baggage'. with approximately 90,000 words of federal gun laws, how can the government expect its citizens to comply with all of its regulations(many of which it has no power. as dictated by the constitution, to impose in the first place). Recently, after writing up an enormous idea i had for my ideal governmental structure i decided to try and complile what i thought would be my ideal set of gun laws. Now this is by no means a finished draft as i have only spent three days working on it (mostly looking through the '68 GCA and its various amendments). Furthermore i know that much it contains is quite restrictive compared to our current laws. Lastly id like to express my sentiments regarding registration of firearms: id rather have a gun that the government knows i have than no gun at all. Imagine the state of the sedentary militia in 50 years with the FOPA still on the books, and god knows what else with it.

so without further ado this is the basic structure for the aforementioned 'proposal', minus most of the crap (definitions, prohibitions etc) that ill have to include before i send it to my representatives with an informative and hopefully provocative introduction... comments and suggestions both welcome and appreciated

PURPOSE: To clarify the purposes and reasons for firearm ownership as consistent with the sentiments expressed in the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America during the time of its writing and to express the need for a simplification of our federal and state gun laws in order to avoid rendering otherwise law-abiding citizens criminals. Providing for the ability of law abiding citizens to legally own and operate firearms, while keeping firearms out of the hands of terrorists and those who might use them in criminal acts.

Section 1 - Reasons for gun ownership

(a) Defense
(1) Personal defense
(A) Unless otherwise restricted any firearm using ammunition which will not penetrate fully two external walls, as are found in a common domicile, and retain the ability necessary to penetrate fully a man's abdominal cavity.
(B) In conjunction with state laws firearms maybe carried for use outside the home.
(2) Protection of property and other individuals
(A) A firearm may be used to protect one's family in one's home if it is qualified for personal defense under section 1(a)(1)(A).
(B) A firearm may be used, in conjunction with applicable state and federal laws, to defend persons and property that have been established as being in need of defense of those committing a crime or an act of terrorism. Such a firearm must either be qualified for personal defense under section 1(a)(1)(A) or applicable for concealed carry by the user under the state's laws in which the incidence occurred.
(3) National defense
(A) In time of emergency the national sedentary militia may be called forth by the chief executive to defend national interests.

(b) Hunting
(1) Following guidelines laid out by state and federal law firearms may be used to kill animals.

(c) Sport shooting
(1) Any weapon may be discharged in sport as long as it is done in compliance with local, state and federal laws
(A) ammunition which contains a flammable material that is designed to ignite or explode upon impact may not be used unless the range approves and is approved for its use under state and federal law

Section 2 - Regulations on ownership and use : States, counties cities and individuals unwilling to accept these regulations are prevented from receiving license to manufacture, import, sell or engage in commerce in weapons covered in this section. Unless the place of residence prohibits entirely, or chooses to place regulations/requirements deemed more strict upon the item(s) in question.

(a) Disallowed from ownership or purchase of firearms, firearm components, accessories and ammunition are persons who:
(1) Have been convicted or are currently charged with a felony
(2) Are a fugitive
(3) Are adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to any mental institution
(4) Are addicted to, or is and unlawful user of any scheduled substance
(5) Are a resident of a state where the firearm, ammunition or device in question is prohibited
(6) Are aliens illegally or unlawfully in the United States
(8) Were dishonorably discharged from the armed forces
(9) Are subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner
(10) Convicted or currently charged with any violent crime
(11) Less than 18 years old
(12) Listed on any government organization's terrorist watch list

(b) Additional restrictions
(1) Any person who is less than 21 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a handgun or other applicable item
(2) Any person who is charged with or has been convicted of any property crime may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a handgun or other applicable item
(3) Any person who is charged with or has been convicted of any criminal act with a firearm not covered in Section 2(a) may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a handgun or other applicable item
(4) Any person who is charged with or has been convicted of any drug crime not covered in Section 2(a). If the crime is only possession of marijuana the individual may submit to a drug test immediately, and if the results come back negative they are considered able for the purchase in question

(c) Additional restrictions on select fire and fully automatic weapons
(1) Any person who is less than 25 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of three years.
(2) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration.
(3) No person may possess or purchase a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they have a safe where the firearm must be stored to prevent theft
(4) The owner of a select fire or fully automatic weapon that has been stolen are required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the theft.
(5) The owner of a select fire or fully automatic weapon must submit to inspection of the place where said firearm is kept.
(6) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(2)-(4)
(7) No more than four select fire or fully automatic weapons manufactured after may 19, 1986 may be owned by any one individual, and no more than seven total select fire or fully automatic weapons may be owned by any one individual unless they currently possess more than that number, and than they are prohibited from acquiring new select fire or fully automatic weapons until their number of select fire or fully automatic weapons drops below five unless otherwise exempted.
(8) Any person may not purchase a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they allow the BAFTE to check their medical records for signs of mental illness. If signs of mental illness are found psychological evaluations, paid for by the individual in question and performed by a licensed psychotherapist, psychologist or psychiatrist, are mandated, if the individual still desires to make the purchase, until a decision can be reached by the evaluator(s) as to whether or not the individual could pose a danger if allowed to possess such a weapon.

(d) Additional restrictions on sound suppressors
(1) Any person who is less than 25 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a sound suppressor unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of three years.
(2) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a sound suppressor unless they submit to BATFE registration of the sound suppressor and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration. Additional taxes may be imposed to cover additional costs incurred by the BATFE for monitoring and tracking.
(3) No person may possess or purchase a sound suppressor unless they have a safe where the supressor must be stored to prevent theft
(4) The owner of a sound suppressor that has been stolen is required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the theft.
(5) The owner of a sound suppressor must submit to inspection by the BATFE of the place where said suppressor is kept.
(6) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(2)-(4)

(e) Additional restrictions on explosive infantry weapons, mortars, grenade launchers and rocket launchers
(1) Any person who is less than 30 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of four years.
(2) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration. Additional taxes may be imposed to cover additional costs incurred by the BATFE for monitoring and tracking.
(3) No person may possess or purchase any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers they have a safe where the item(s) must be stored to prevent theft
(4) The owner of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers that have been stolen or destroyed are required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the incident.
(5) The owner of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers must submit to inspection by the BATFE of the place where said suppressor is kept.
(6) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(2)-(4)
(7) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(a)
(8) Any person may not purchase any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers unless they allow the BAFTE to check their medical records for signs of mental illness. If signs of mental illness are found psychological evaluations, paid for by the individual in question and performed by a licensed psychotherapist, psychologist or psychiatrist, are mandated, if the individual still desires to make the purchase, until a decision can be reached by the evaluator(s) as to whether or not the individual could pose a danger if allowed to possess such a weapon.

(f) Additional restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns
(1) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(1)-(4) and
(2) No individual may own more than one shotgun with a barrel of a length of less than 18 inches.
(3) No household may contain more than two shotguns with a barrel of a length of less than 18 inches
(4) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a shotguns with a barrel of a length of less than 18 inches, or a rifle with a barrel of less than 16 inches that is capable of accepting a magazine currently in circulation that holds over 20 rounds unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration. Additional taxes may be imposed to cover costs incurred by the BATFE for monitoring and tracking.


(g) Additional restrictions on long range rifles
(1) rifles capable of being accurately fired 600m or more are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b). exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those under 21 for sporting or hunting purposes.
(2) Any person who is less than 25 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m or more unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of three years. rifles capable of being accurately fired 1000m or more, exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those not eligible sporting or hunting purposes.
(3) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration.
(4) No person may possess or purchase a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m unless they have a safe where is must be stored to prevent theft
(5) The owner of a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m that has been stolen are required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the theft.
(6) The owner of a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m must submit to inspection of the place where said firearm is kept.
(7) Any non-dealer applying for purchase or transfer of any a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1200m or more must submit a reason for purchase to local and state law enforcement headquarters listing any other weapons in this category the individual and their spouse currently owns and their reason(s) for their purchase in question. If their request is denied by either local or state law enforcement they will be unable to acquire said item.


(h) Magazines
(1) Magazines capable of holding over 30 rounds of ammunition designed to fire in the corresponding rifle are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b) and must be stored in a safe
(2)semi-automatic shotguns with capacity to hold, or accept a magazine that holds over 9 rounds are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b) and must be stored in safe. exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those under 21 for sporting or hunting purposes and for home defense.


(i) Ammunition
(1) Sub-sonic, Incendiary, devastator and armor piercing munitions are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b)
(2) Munitions capable of penetrating `bullet proof' armor of the type given to front line troops at 20 meters are subject to all restrictions found in section 2(b), exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those under 21 for sporting or hunting purposes.

(j) Weapons designed to fire a projectile of diameter no less than 12.7mm and no more than 20mm that require mounting on a tripod or other device designed to stabilize the weapon, belt feeding and/or multiple individuals to operate not covered in a previous section, for be referred to in this section as heavy weapons for convenience.
(1) Any weapon fitting into this category is subject to all restrictions that firearms are in section 2(c)(1)(2) and (4)-(6)
(2) Any non-dealer applying for purchase or transfer of any firearm in this category must submit a reason for purchase to local and state law enforcement headquarters listing any other weapons in this category the individual and their spouse, if applicable, currently owns. If their request is denied by either local or state law enforcement they will be unable to acquire said item.
(3) The storage of said weapons must be secure in order to prevent theft. Ammunition for heavy weapons must be kept in a safe. Security will entail:
(A) An alarm system that will alert law enforcement
(B) A loaded firearm useable for personal defense and/or home defense that the owner of
the weapon is able to use effectively in defense of their property and this firearm
(C) other applicable precautions designed to prevent theft including but not limited to a safe, or other device designed to physically secure the weapon, and deadbolt, chain or equivalent lock(s) or other devices similar in function on the door(s) of the area where the weapon is kept.
(4) No more than two heavy weapons can be owned by one individual or married couple and no more than three may be stored at one place unless otherwise allowed.
(5) Any person may not purchase a heavy weapon unless they allow the BAFTE to check their medical records for signs of mental illness. If signs of mental illness are found psychological evaluations, paid for by the individual in question and performed by a licensed psychotherapist, psychologist or psychiatrist, are mandated, if the individual still desires to make the purchase, until a decision can be reached by the evaluator(s) as to whether or not the individual could pose a danger if allowed to possess such a weapon.
(6) Firearm components, accessories and ammunition for firearms with a projectile diameter larger than 20mm not covered in section 2(e) are prohibited from civilian ownership unless otherwise allowed.

(k) Regulations on use of
(1) use while under the influence of alcohol firearms, firearm components, accessories and ammunition is strictly prohibited.

(l) Restoration of rights
(1) individuals who have been barred from purchase or possession of firearms, firearm components, and accessories, and ammunition may, if the offense was committed before an age to be determined by state law, be allowed to purchase certain types of firearms, firearm components, and accessories, and ammunition in accordance with state and local laws after a number, to be determined by state and local laws, of years has passed after their release from detention or parole through a petition to be filed as dictated by state law.

Section 3 - Transportation of firearms, firearm components, accessories and ammunition

(a) Firearms must be unloaded for transport unless otherwise allowed
(b) Ammunition being transported must be stored in a manner prohibitive to its discharge, if said precautions are not taken and injury or damage occurs as a result the owner will be at fault.

Section 4 - Organized militia; this is not something required by a state to adopt, but states that opt to organize a militia must comply by the rules in this section.

(a) Organization
(1) Entrance requirements
(A) An applicant for the militia must be able to possess and purchase a firearm, meeting the standards in section 2(a) and (b)(2)-(4)
(B) An applicant for the militia must allow one time access to their medical records for the purpose of determining physical and mental fitness.
(C) If questions are raised the applicant will submit to a mental health evaluation at their expense, although the applicant may elect to not take this step they will be unable to join the militia unless they are deemed mentally healthy.
(D) An applicant for the militia must take a comprehensive physical to include a through drug screening at their expense.
(2) Officer selection
(A) Officers of every level will be nominated and elected at a gatherings to be held at least every ten years and at most every year, unless emergency circumstances dictate a need for a new officer. This will be done in accordance with state militia regulations.

(b) Fitness, training and drilling
(1) Physical fitness
(A) A physical exam is mandated for any militiaman who has not undergone a physical exam in 4 years, this will be at the individual's expense and may be done by a personal physician.
(B) An officer may recommend or require a militiaman to undergo a physical exam at any time with a physician authorized by the officer in question.
(C) Fitness tests will be required of every militiaman every year. These will be determined by state law, but should not be less than is required to be a member of the armed forces, reserve or active duty.
(2) Training
(A) Training should be conducted in a military manner, with the support of knowledgeable individuals, especially in the operation of devices that require it until the militiamen operating it are proficient to a great enough degree to function independently and train future members.
(3) Drilling
(A) Drilling will occur for a time to be determined by the necessity for those drilling to be able to quickly and proficiently perform the tasks they must accomplish in battle.
(B) Drilling will occur no less than once every 3 months and should not be required of any unit to the point that they are unable to perform their duties associated with their life as a civilian. During time of possible invasion or danger drilling both requirements are suspended.

(c) Arms
(1) Acquisition
(A) All small arms used by individual militiamen will be provided by the individual militiaman. In the purchasing of such small arms the individual should be viewed by manufacturers, dealers and importers as a member of the military of the united states. All purchases where the militiaman identifies himself as such must be approved by the commanding officers of the individual militiaman. In the event that a militiaman is discharged from, or leaves the militia their weapon will become part of the militia's armory unless the individual has the weapon transferred to them as a civilian.
(B) Crew served weapons and military vehicles purchased from the united states government as military surplus.
(1) Items offered as per request submitted to the department of defense by the head of the state militia.
(2) Such offers are paid for as follows: 10% of the cost will be paid by the militia itself, 40% of the cost will be paid by the federal government, and 50% of the cost will be paid by the state unless otherwise stated.
(3) Ships and other items acquired as described in section 4(c)(1)(B)(1) capable of, and designed to be employed in defense of the parts of the nation that do not necessarily include the state in which it is based will come at the cost of 50% to the federal government and 40% to the state.
(4) As per section 4(c)(1)(B)(2)&(3) the payment for requested weapons by the federal government must be approved by the chief executive and the payment for requested weapons by the state must be approved by the governor of that state.
(5) Items purchased, or requested from defense contractors by the head of the state militia, approved by the governor of the state in which the militia is located and the chief executive.
(6) such items are paid for in the same manner as are surplus items, refer to section 4(c)(1)(B)(2)-(4)
(2) Storage
(A) arms purchased by an individual may be stored at the individual's place of residence as per firearm laws dictated in section 2(B)
(B) if the individual elects to, or is unable to comply with local, state and federal laws in keeping their firearms at their residence firearms may be kept at a militia's armory.

(d) Duties
(1)The militia's first duty will be to serve the state and nation in time of emergency, providing for national defense and order. They will follow the orders of the president and governor of their state, which will be related through the command structure.


im sorry if you actually read all of that.

A socialist libertarian praying to god for constitutional reform and an end to the two party system

Comments

  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by navynuke
    im sorry if you actually read all of that.
    Nope didn't. Read enough. [:(]

    Why so many laws?
    Murder with a rock, or a gun, is still murder.
    Why not punish the CRIMINAL for his/her deeds, NOT the inanimate object used to commit the crime?

    A lot of the people on this forum would have been criminals under "your" laws. We grew up with guns, and had guns when we were kids. That is all the farther I read. (this time)






    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    About as many words in thee as in the entire Constitution,I think..looks like a lawyers dream to me.

    Commit a crime with a firearm..go to jail.
    Murder someone with a firearm..get executed

    See the beautiful simplicity of it all ?
  • navynukenavynuke Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    About as many words in thee as in the entire Constitution,I think..looks like a lawyers dream to me.

    Commit a crime with a firearm..go to jail.
    Murder someone with a firearm..get executed

    See the beautiful simplicity of it all ?

    i agree, but go to jail is a statement that requires further definition. Term and such. I also neglected to include dealer info. When i get done i expect it to be up to three times as long. I suppose it would be much simpler if we all lived up in the mountains and ate squirrel [;)]
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I respect the time and energy you have spent navynuke, but I must tell you anytime you or anyone comes up with new and better ideas you might as well just forget about it and go out and spend your time having fun. Reason being that if you are not rich and/or powerful no one will pay you much attention.

    And I am against long and complicated laws as they appear to me to reflect the naive, goofey, left-wing, liberal, socialist engineers who seem to believe that government has the power and ability to legislate us all into a state of utopia. However, criminals, especially violent criminals are "outlaws" and that very name indicates they laugh at any laws that might stop or slow them from committing their illegal acts. So after you get past legislating a few simple laws such as it is "unlawful to threaten, harm, harrass or kill any innocent person with ANY weapon" and attach appropriate penalties for such behavior, there is not a whole lot of good you can accomplish in continuing on making more and more laws and more and more complicated laws. Doing so only unfairly burdens the already lawful people and has little or no effect on the unlawful.

    JMHO

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • navynukenavynuke Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    quote:Originally posted by navynuke
    im sorry if you actually read all of that.
    Nope didn't. Read enough. [:(]

    Why so many laws?
    Murder with a rock, or a gun, is still murder.
    Why not punish the CRIMINAL for his/her deeds, NOT the inanimate object used to commit the crime?

    A lot of the people on this forum would have been criminals under "your" laws. We grew up with guns, and had guns when we were kids. That is all the farther I read. (this time)

    The gene pool needs chlorine.

    ive grown up with guns as well. But now i realize that the majority of american voters view guns as dangerous, when i tell someone that they are not, people are and that more murders are committed with blunt objects and hands than guns in the US every year the sound like a half programmed VPC robot. And will continue to sound that way until crime rates drop dramatically.

    I am not punishing any inanimate objects (thats impossible), and i agree that criminals need to be punished. Mostly i just want to see some of the provisions in the FOPA repealed. But we've had 4 years of republican domination, yet i dont know of even one attempt to lower the prices on select fire weapons. Than there are the bans, on magazines, on ammunition, name it there are a number of democratic senators who want to ban it. When it comes down to voting there will be enough republicans in democratic leaning states or areas that will vote for it and not lose their job next election. It seems to me every year less and less people favor civilian ownership of millitary weapons for the purpose of contributing to the national defense. less and less people trust other people with guns. More and more people buy into the VPC's rhetoric. alright, im dont ranting. If you have specific issues to address id love to discuss them.

    A socialist libertarian praying to god for constitutional reform and an end to the two party system
  • navynukenavynuke Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    I respect the time and energy you have spent navynuke, but I must tell you anytime you or anyone comes up with new and better ideas you might as well just forget about it and go out and spend your time having fun. Reason being that if you are not rich and/or powerful no one will pay you much attention.

    And I am against long and complicated laws as they appear to me to reflect the naive, goofey, left-wing, liberal, socialist engineers who seem to believe that government has the power and ability to legislate us all into a state of utopia. However, criminals, especially violent criminals are "outlaws" and that very name indicates they laugh at any laws that might stop or slow them from committing their illegal acts. So after you get past legislating a few simple laws such as it is "unlawful to threaten, harm, harrass or kill any innocent person with ANY weapon" and attach appropriate penalties for such behavior, there is not a whole lot of good you can accomplish in continuing on making more and more laws and more and more complicated laws. Doing so only unfairly burdens the already lawful people and has little or no effect on the unlawful.

    i think there is something to be said for reasonable legislation's role in reducing the criminal population in the long term by discouraging youth from entering into a criminal career. There is also something to be said for the effect of strigent punishments, rigidly enforced (especially upon repeat offenders) in deterring criminal acts, much in the same way CCW laws reduce crime rates.

    I would assert that gun laws are not going to solve all our problems. Ending the war on drugs and starting an effective war on poverty would be a good start. Forcing inmates to choose between trade school or college and hard labor would be another instead of sending them off to corporate controlled 'prisons' that offer better living conditions than the YMCA, if you can avoid being raped.

    I would agree that legislation will not create utopia. I do think that socialism is superior to modern commercialist capitalism. But its my opinion that socialism will be precluded by a widespread acceptance of a need for it, as has been seen in europe, and to some extent japan. What irks me more than anything is anarcho-capitalists claiming that the middle class values of our found fathers support the kind of crap that goes on today. Their middle class values had community at their center, not personal gain and instant gratification.

    A socialist libertarian praying to god for constitutional reform and an end to the two party system
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, I don't like it.

    How about this, more constitutional version:

    The unfettered right of all free people to own and wield any weapon of their choosing, for any purpose that does not infringe on another person or peoples' legitimate right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, shall NOT be infringed in any way, shape, or form, by neither restricting, taxing, registration, or banning.

    Here is my argument by section:


    quote:a) Defense
    (1) Personal defense
    (A) Unless otherwise restricted any firearm using ammunition which will not penetrate fully two external walls, as are found in a common domicile, and retain the ability necessary to penetrate fully a man's abdominal cavity.
    (B) In conjunction with state laws firearms maybe carried for use outside the home.
    (2) Protection of property and other individuals
    (A) A firearm may be used to protect one's family in one's home if it is qualified for personal defense under section 1(a)(1)(A).
    (B) A firearm may be used, in conjunction with applicable state and federal laws, to defend persons and property that have been established as being in need of defense of those committing a crime or an act of terrorism. Such a firearm must either be qualified for personal defense under section 1(a)(1)(A) or applicable for concealed carry by the user under the state's laws in which the incidence occurred.
    (3) National defense
    (A) In time of emergency the national sedentary militia may be called forth by the chief executive to defend national interests.


    1A. All firearms are unrestricted. The 2nd Amendment holds no discretionary language.
    1B. Constitutionally, State laws are rendered null and void by the 2nd Amendment.

    2A. No qualification required. That is your personal decision, not Big Brother's.
    2B. See 1B.

    3A. National interests that include ONLY ones that benefit the safety and security of a Free State. In other words, the militia will not be used against civilians of the US, like Waco or Ruby Ridge.

    quote:(b) Hunting
    (1) Following guidelines laid out by state and federal law firearms may be used to kill animals.


    I can live with this. Since there is no direct right to hunt, only an implied right to hunt granted by the 9th Amendment, this is acceptable.

    quote:(c) Sport shooting
    (1) Any weapon may be discharged in sport as long as it is done in compliance with local, state and federal laws
    (A) ammunition which contains a flammable material that is designed to ignite or explode upon impact may not be used unless the range approves and is approved for its use under state and federal law


    c1. Federal, State and local laws are null and void by 2nd Amendment. You are responsible for every single shot you fire.

    c2. See c1.

    quote:Section 2 - Regulations on ownership and use : States, counties cities and individuals unwilling to accept these regulations are prevented from receiving license to manufacture, import, sell or engage in commerce in weapons covered in this section. Unless the place of residence prohibits entirely, or chooses to place regulations/requirements deemed more strict upon the item(s) in question.


    On this section, we seriously need to be of the mindset that WE the people are competent to use good judgment with our God-given rights. Those who are of criminal mindset should be exiled from society, and this no longer becomes a problem. Let's go through them, anyway....

    quote:(1) Have been convicted or are currently charged with a felony


    There are lots of non-violent felonies out there that dismantle what should be a free man's right to self preservation. They pay their debt to society, they are reinstated with all their rights. The violent felonies, on the other hand, those people may never see the light of day if they were being dealt with the proper way.

    quote:(2) Are a fugitive

    This is just plain funny, right here. Someone who is a fugitive is probably already armed. I doubt they'll need another gun.

    quote:(3) Are adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to any mental institution

    I doubt those who roll their crap into little balls and eat crayons are going to go get a gun. There do appear to be laws that govern invalids as people who do not have the mental ability to understand what they are doing on a sufficient level (my youngest brother being one of them) who have their lives run by other people (like, where my brother is concerned, either me or Mom). The rest of them, if they are released, that is because they are ready to exist in society, and should have all rights reinstated. This isn't as big a problem as most of us have been led to believe.

    quote:(4) Are addicted to, or is and unlawful user of any scheduled substance


    I do not acknowledge the power of government to prosecute anyone for responsible use of any drug. Although I am not a user of anything except for over-the-counter pain and allergy medicine and prescription asthma meds, does it really bother me when a couple of guys and their girlfriends go into a room and burn one? No. I may not like that, but I am not their dad. Neither is the government. Besides, the 'War' on Drugs is nothing more than a way for the feds to infringe on the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 8th Amendments to the Constitution under the banner of righteousness.

    quote:(5) Are a resident of a state where the firearm, ammunition or device in question is prohibited


    None are prohibitable. All other laws are null and void.

    quote:(6) Are aliens illegally or unlawfully in the United States


    This applies. Illegal aliens do not have the freedoms we do here.

    quote:(8) Were dishonorably discharged from the armed forces

    I disagree. Unless the discharged commited an act that would have him in prison for a legitimate reason and not just for being a conscientious objector, then I do not agree. But then, if it was a terrible act, he would not be a free man to begin with.

    quote:(9) Are subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner

    If this were truly a problem, the stalker would have much greater problems than a restraining order to deal with. But if we insist on restraining orders, here's a suggestion. Put an automatic death sentence with no appeals on him if anything happens to her and he has no credible alibi.

    quote:(10) Convicted or currently charged with any violent crime

    If you are currently convicted of any violent crime, you won't be a free man, anyway, so you have no freedom. If you're charged with a violent crime, the last thing you want to do is commit a crime of any sort. Otherwise, you could be looking at an automatic death sentence.

    quote:11) Less than 18 years old

    Ok, by default, no non-adult can own anything. An emancipated teenager, on the other hand, does not have this restriction.

    quote:[12) Listed on any government organization's terrorist watch list
    /quote]

    If our 2nd Amendment was the law of the land, terrorists would be terrified to do anything here. The same could be said of stalkers or those charged with a violent crime out on bail.

    quote:(b) Additional restrictions
    (1) Any person who is less than 21 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a handgun or other applicable item
    (2) Any person who is charged with or has been convicted of any property crime may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a handgun or other applicable item
    (3) Any person who is charged with or has been convicted of any criminal act with a firearm not covered in Section 2(a) may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a handgun or other applicable item
    (4) Any person who is charged with or has been convicted of any drug crime not covered in Section 2(a). If the crime is only possession of marijuana the individual may submit to a drug test immediately, and if the results come back negative they are considered able for the purchase in question


    1. Nope. 18 years of age. If they can own property, this is no different.
    2. (I don't get this one. A property crime? If it means thievery or vandalism, they can sit in jail and repay the victim 3 fold what they stole or destroyed.)
    3. If this situation is true, they won't be owning one in prison.
    4. I don't acknowledge drug laws, only the impending consequences, such as drunk driving.

    quote:c) Additional restrictions on select fire and fully automatic weapons
    (1) Any person who is less than 25 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of three years.
    (2) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration.
    (3) No person may possess or purchase a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they have a safe where the firearm must be stored to prevent theft
    (4) The owner of a select fire or fully automatic weapon that has been stolen are required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the theft.
    (5) The owner of a select fire or fully automatic weapon must submit to inspection of the place where said firearm is kept.
    (6) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(2)-(4)
    (7) No more than four select fire or fully automatic weapons manufactured after may 19, 1986 may be owned by any one individual, and no more than seven total select fire or fully automatic weapons may be owned by any one individual unless they currently possess more than that number, and than they are prohibited from acquiring new select fire or fully automatic weapons until their number of select fire or fully automatic weapons drops below five unless otherwise exempted.
    (8) Any person may not purchase a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they allow the BAFTE to check their medical records for signs of mental illness. If signs of mental illness are found psychological evaluations, paid for by the individual in question and performed by a licensed psychotherapist, psychologist or psychiatrist, are mandated, if the individual still desires to make the purchase, until a decision can be reached by the evaluator(s) as to whether or not the individual could pose a danger if allowed to possess such a weapon.


    1. Nope. No special favors to members of law enforcement and military. We are all citizens with the same rights. And the age is 18, not 25.
    2. Registration is a violation of the right to privacy in the 4th Amendment, and the right against self-incrimination found in the 5th Amendment, not to mention an infringement of the 2nd Amendment.
    3. No one should be forced to have to own anything in order to exercise a God-given right. I would advise it, but no one has the right to tell them to do it or else....
    4. BATFE should not exist in the first place. But I see nothing wrong with contacting the police in the event of a theft. Besides, that's the only way insurance will kick in, is with a police report.
    5. This is a violation of the 4th and 5th Amendment, so, this is not valid.
    6. The last thing a jailbird is going to have access to is a gun.
    7. Rationing regulations equals infringement. Therefore, this is not valid.
    8. This also amounts to an intrusion of privacy and is a hidden 'cost'. Not valid.

    quote:(d) Additional restrictions on sound suppressors
    (1) Any person who is less than 25 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a sound suppressor unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of three years.
    (2) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a sound suppressor unless they submit to BATFE registration of the sound suppressor and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration. Additional taxes may be imposed to cover additional costs incurred by the BATFE for monitoring and tracking.
    (3) No person may possess or purchase a sound suppressor unless they have a safe where the supressor must be stored to prevent theft
    (4) The owner of a sound suppressor that has been stolen is required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the theft.
    (5) The owner of a sound suppressor must submit to inspection by the BATFE of the place where said suppressor is kept.
    (6) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(2)-(4)


    Exactly the same as a full auto.

    quote:(e) Additional restrictions on explosive infantry weapons, mortars, grenade launchers and rocket launchers
    (1) Any person who is less than 30 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of four years.
    (2) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration. Additional taxes may be imposed to cover additional costs incurred by the BATFE for monitoring and tracking.
    (3) No person may possess or purchase any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers they have a safe where the item(s) must be stored to prevent theft
    (4) The owner of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers that have been stolen or destroyed are required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the incident.
    (5) The owner of any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers must submit to inspection by the BATFE of the place where said suppressor is kept.
    (6) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(2)-(4)
    (7) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(a)
    (8) Any person may not purchase any explosive infantry weapons, mortars, or grenade or rocket launchers unless they allow the BAFTE to check their medical records for signs of mental illness. If signs of mental illness are found psychological evaluations, paid for by the individual in question and performed by a licensed psychotherapist, psychologist or psychiatrist, are mandated, if the individual still desires to make the purchase, until a decision can be reached by the evaluator(s) as to whether or not the individual could pose a danger if allowed to possess such a weapon.


    Same as full auto section.

    quote:(f) Additional restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns
    (1) The above items are covered by all restrictions found in Section 2(b),(1)-(4) and
    (2) No individual may own more than one shotgun with a barrel of a length of less than 18 inches.
    (3) No household may contain more than two shotguns with a barrel of a length of less than 18 inches
    (4) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a shotguns with a barrel of a length of less than 18 inches, or a rifle with a barrel of less than 16 inches that is capable of accepting a magazine currently in circulation that holds over 20 rounds unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration. Additional taxes may be imposed to cover costs incurred by the BATFE for monitoring and tracking.


    Same as full auto. (What is it with this appreciation for the right arm of the USA's own Gestapo organization called the BTFE, anyway? They should not even exist!!!)

    quote:g) Additional restrictions on long range rifles
    (1) rifles capable of being accurately fired 600m or more are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b). exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those under 21 for sporting or hunting purposes.
    (2) Any person who is less than 25 years of age may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m or more unless they served with any branch of the united states armed forces, or any law enforcement agency for a total of three years. rifles capable of being accurately fired 1000m or more, exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those not eligible sporting or hunting purposes.
    (3) Any person may not purchase or lawfully be in possession of a select fire or fully automatic weapon unless they submit to BATFE registration of their firearm and pay a tax of the amount required to process their registration.
    (4) No person may possess or purchase a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m unless they have a safe where is must be stored to prevent theft
    (5) The owner of a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m that has been stolen are required to immediately contact the BATFE with details concerning the theft.
    (6) The owner of a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1000m must submit to inspection of the place where said firearm is kept.
    (7) Any non-dealer applying for purchase or transfer of any a rifle capable of being accurately fired 1200m or more must submit a reason for purchase to local and state law enforcement headquarters listing any other weapons in this category the individual and their spouse currently owns and their reason(s) for their purchase in question. If their request is denied by either local or state law enforcement they will be unable to acquire said item.


    Don't be giving antigunners new ideas. There are all sorts of them listed here, and I oppose every single one of them.
    (h) Magazines
    (1) Magazines capable of holding over 30 rounds of ammunition designed to fire in the corresponding rifle are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b) and must be stored in a safe
    (2)semi-automatic shotguns with capacity to hold, or accept a magazine that holds over 9 rounds are subject to all restrictions found under section 2(b) and must be stored in safe. exceptions made for supervised possession and use by those under 21 for sporting or hunting purposes and for home defense.


    No one has the authority to force anyone to have mags of a certain capacity, and register the ones that don't meet the specifications. Gun banners love laws like this, because then, all they have to do is lower the number every chance they can.

    I'll just leave it at this.

    The creation of laws to mandate firearms is never a good idea, and here's why.

    It gives premise to gun banners that laws on a God-given right are legitimate, and that more is acceptable.

    Have you ever heard the phrase, "We don't need more gun laws. Let's enforce the ones already on the books." This actually takes one liberal policy of a less restrictive nature in favor of a draconian liberal policy, and gives place to them, when in reality, you never hear someone say, "We have too many damned laws on the books, and they are doing more harm than good!"

    As a matter of fact, the NRA has this battle front all wrong, too. (Sorry Fox.. this has to be said). All too often, the NRA has the chance to tell the people that these laws are working in a counterproductive way. Instead, they choose a way that points to the non-productive way. Basically, what ends up happening, is when the NRA says it was a law that didn't do anything, then it looks to the rest of society like a bunch of cry-babies who want their 'right' to own a gun, which has no bearing on society as a whole. Show the country that these laws a re malicious, and aid criminals, and you will see a different side of things. 11 SEP 2001 has made a bigger impact on people than what the NRA has, because their strategy has been all wrong. By taking to a defensive stance on the right of the people to keep and bear arms, we are losing. We need to begin pushing back as one united force, that protects ALL rights, not just the ones some of us feel are "OK".

    And that's the way it is!!!






    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 37,959 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    (a) Disallowed from ownership or purchase of firearms, firearm components, accessories and ammunition are persons who:
    (11) Less than 18 years old

    Didn't like 'em when I started reading them, and quit right here. Seems like the gun laws we have right now. Where's the change?

    Aberdeen.gif
    81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
    U!S!A! ALL THE WAY!!
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    YUP;
    Perfect way to disenfranchise the youngsters of this country..keep 'em insulated from evil firearms..don't allow them the pride of ownership..that treasured time between a dad and son..10 or eleventh birthday or Christmas..when that long package is opened..

    After all Socialists KNOW what is best for EVERYBODY...
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    We gotta face it friends.....They been out of touch with firearms for HOW long allready...The Parents should be held liable for their kids and the training fo such inso far as firerm responsiblities or lack thereof..is concerned...The publick is gonna wanna hold SOMEONE responsible...And access to firearms without proper training/upbringing is a bad place to start?
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You have no argument from me on that...

    ...thing is, who's going to do it? I would rather that feds stay out of it. Their idea of training and whatever else is laughable, at best.

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
  • flat8flat8 Member Posts: 887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, but I'm not a fan. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?
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