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GUNBROKER and the ATF

LIKLIK Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
edited August 2005 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
Gunbroker will release your records to the ATF if the ATF asks! Just thought all you folks here at GB should know what GB will do if the ATF decides to come after you.
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I expect all concerned harbor no illusions about the privacy of anything posted on the internet.
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    WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm sure we are all on many government watch lists.

    All I can say is... be careful what you say.

    [:)]

    wwsm.GIF
    "...That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state."

    -The Debates in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Virginia, on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution. June 27, 1788.
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    duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Please post source of your info. Are you just another rumor??

    I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.
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    DefenderDefender Member Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The fact is very simple, should Gunbroker not turn over something that ATF asks for a Grand Jury Subpoena would automatically get served on Gunbroker and ATF will get all they want. Should Gunbroker refuse, then these subpoenas these is a whole ration of jail and contempt penalties. That "wonderful" Patriot Act gave the government lots of new authority to go on fishing expeditions after anyone they like.

    Defender
    Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
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    dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I doubt that many gunbroker users are on government lists. I don't mean to sound naive, but it seems to me that the ATF would understand more than the average citizen that criminals use illegally owned guns, and probably wouldn't be too suspicious of a gun service that requires shipment to FFLs.

    I'm sure government agents check in on these forums from time to time, and probably even post, but I don't think we'll attract too much suspicion unless we talk of violent activities.
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    DefenderDefender Member Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On the other hand trusting that our government bureaucrats don't put their noses where they don't belong is not real smart. The problem is we overfund government agencies in the name of public safety and get rewarded with things like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

    Defender
    Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
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    codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931 ✭
    edited November -1
    I suspect that there is some monitoring occurring. I would even go so far as to say that they may be customers too. Even if you talk of violence I don't think anything could occur to some degree. This,of course, excepted unless you talk specifics. This makes you too stupid to be part of the general population anyway, and a security risk to any fellow conspirators.


    Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
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    dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Defender. The government will monitor stuff like this to a degree, and they are overfunded and target law abiding people. I don't necessarily think all of our real names are on a list, because of the work it would take to subpeona our ISPs to give out the name of what user was assigned to what IP address at what time.

    Also, if you are using an anonymising proxy, your identity (ISP's IP address) will be safe as soon as the proxy clears their log files.
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    slingerslinger Member Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I won't get mad if GB does what the ATF asks.

    Art
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    LIKLIK Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No Rumor. They gave the records of all the parts and rifles I have bought here, and bid on to special agent **********, of the wichita Ks branch to try to get evidence against me for an upcoming case. F@#$ the ATF!
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    dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't expect the gb staff to do much in resistance to the ATF. They are a private group that can't put up much of a defense against a government agency. Even though gb requires a transfer to FFLs, we could soon be hearing news on CBS about terrorists buying guns over the internet in a rabid attempt to shut down sites like gunbroker. Sad, but true.
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    duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whats the "rest of the story"??? BATFE just wants to make a case for no reason??

    I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.
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    65gto38965gto389 Member Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by LIK
    No Rumor. They gave the records of all the parts and rifles I have bought here, and bid on to special agent **********, of the wichita Ks branch to try to get evidence against me for an upcoming case. F@#$ the ATF!



    Why not post his name, show him that he can not get away with it.









    " Those who give up a little freedom for temporary security, deserve neither freedom nor security "
    - Benjamin Franklin
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    65gto389,
    As per the posting guidelines, the name(s) have been deleted.
    Especially about unsubstantiated claims such as this.

    quote:Other stuff we automatically delete:

    Complaints about businesses, persons, or transactions unrelated to this site.


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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    rug454rug454 Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The internet is the FEDS, it was used in the beginning to control all NUKE silos together. So when we get an account on the net they already know who we are........ Let them come. 454 and 1/4 inch steel just like hot knife thru butter
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I won't get mad if GB does what the ATF asks.

    Art

    Yeah, I'll bet... until the ATF decides it's time to trap you.

    ATF is known for entrapment, because if it only did the job of busting the bad guys with alcohol, tobacco or firearms, they couldn't maintain or justify their existence.



    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
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    shellyshelly Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    maybe its not the ATF framing someone...maybe its just stupid people making stupid decisions..Everyone is quick to judge but nobody really takes the time to look the facts up and realizes that the person or persons did something wrong...Know both sides before you judge. You would be surprised what really took place verses gossip

    shelly
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Shelly, so glad to see you still posting.

    Although I think we all know that if the ATFE wanted to, for what ever reason, to frame a dealer/gun owner they could easily do so.

    Truly, that is hard to deny.

    4lizad
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    rug454rug454 Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shelly
    maybe its not the ATF framing someone...maybe its just stupid people making stupid decisions..Everyone is quick to judge but nobody really takes the time to look the facts up and realizes that the person or persons did something wrong...Know both sides before you judge. You would be surprised what really took place verses gossip

    shelly
    Ask the survivers of WACO, Or the Weaver family..
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    shellyshelly Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, I am sure anyone with power could if wanted... frame someone. But is there just causes for suspicion..probably ..they just dont decide out of the blue with no just cause..this guys gotta go down. Get real. there is a cause and a motive

    shelly
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    DefenderDefender Member Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This sounds like one of those stories that need vigorous investigation of real facts. The problem is most defense lawyers don't understand gun laws or self-defense. There is a wealth of unexplored valid defenses for alleged gun law violations.

    If the suspects under investigation would ever learn to shut their mouths and not get their legal advice from the government agents arresting them they could manage to stay out of jail.

    Gun laws are not made by experts, but by government agents and politicians. Any legal advice our law makers get comes from lawyers that no nothing about guns.


    Defender
    Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Shelly, I believe you have lived life long enough to know that unfair and unjustified bad things sometimes happen to good people.

    Some reasons being that the person in power (boss, owner, politician, government agent, clerk, etc.) just plain take a dislike to you. Or maybe they have just been given a "quota" of "bad guys" to catch and now YOU look like a bad guy to them in order for them to avoid heat from above.

    The BATFE agents, just for one example, DO NOT GET CREDIT OR PROMOTIONS for the people they DO NOT arrest; only for those they do.

    Remember that if all a person has is a hammer, then EVERY problem starts to look like a nail.

    4lizad
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Considering there should be no such thing as the ATF, anything they do is unconstitutional, and yes, Waco and Randy Weaver know better than that, too.

    I've seen too much documented stuff on them to change my vision on this, now. I have a small collection of books that clearly document abuse of power on all levels. I figured this was common knowledge. Since it isn't, it should be.

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The vast majority of people are convinced that government agencies exist only to safeguard the safety of citizens.
    Exactly as the citizens of Germany, 1933-1945 were convinced those in power were doing what's best for Germany....

    Freedom means whatever the talking head on tv says it means today...and talking about agencies that belong in Nazi Germany..alive and well in Amerika today...goes completely over the head of most of the dumbed down people living as slaves today....
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    shellyshelly Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have noticed something in society lately where it seems we as a people do not have time our selves to live or own lives ...that we have reached a new low by the groups of reality tv out there...Are the people out there living their lives thru tv instead of actually living and experancing life anymore. Off the subject but the last post made me think of it when he said the tv leads us like lambs and we believe what we are told via television as to freedoms.

    I have followed a couple of the other forums on gunbroker and I can say this is the only one ( gun rights ) that makes me sit down and think for a second about sombodys opinion verses the trivial bs on other discusions. Sometimes it does seem though that yall beat on subject to death over and over. But with freedom, religon, or poltical bs everyone has strong feelings one way or another.

    shelly
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The subject of freedom.."Beat To Death"...????

    One lonely forum...a half dozen citizens talking to ourselves. Over on the other forums....6,000 replies on a Sugar Bear thread...empty twaddle...most of the other posts feel-good whats for dinner tonight type stuff...papers full of empty trash about this or that political hack...talk radio full of "I love Bush" trash....

    Where, Madame, and when..should citizens talk about the steady erosion of Rights/Freedoms, and the loss of the greatest country that ever existed ? Me, personally..I feel the rest of the world is engaged in mind-numbing getfun/get money/get laid/get fast car/get boat/getgetgetgetget...SOMEBODY has to think about what SHOULD be...and about the criminals that are running things.
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    WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Shelly, I think what Highball is trying to say is, "Thanks for being here."

    [:D]
    -WW

    wwsm.GIF
    MOLON LAVE



    samsm.gif"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."
    -Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    [:D]
    [:D]
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If our ranting and raving here in our little corner of the world, makes even one person stop and "think" we (collectively) have done something positive.

    We are ALL individuals, don't swallow what is being spoon fed to the sheeple, by the media, or any other source. Question it, get more facts, analyze it, decide for yourself. Go your own way, you don't have to follow the beaten path. More and more people are waking up. You will not be alone on this "new" path.

    THINK, it's what's for dinner. [;)] [:D] [:D]

    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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    harleysfasteddieharleysfasteddie Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ATF[xx(] pay cash for every thing and lie lie lie
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    rovrmanrovrman Member Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Heck, if the ATF will pay me cash, I'll come up with something.

    french people don't speak german, Thank my dad for that!!
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    shootstrightshootstright Member Posts: 342 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does any one know wants up with the 500 federal agents at a Virgina gun show . The word is it was a dry run for a way to stop gun shows.

    Freedom rings when the people stand up to be counted at the polls . write your rep. or senator and give them hell when they need it and praise when they do it right.

    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
    Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.


    NRA write your Rep. will save a stamp
    http://www.capwiz.com/nra/home/
    GOA
    http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm
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    jhimcojhimco Member Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm sure the BATF is not going after the average collector like most of us. LIK, what laws did you break? Are you a felon?
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    shootstrightshootstright Member Posts: 342 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jhimco
    You don't have to be a felon or break the law to have BATFE put a target on you back. take your head out of the sand and look at what is going on around you . Canada, UK , Australia ,Calif.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Absolutely, shootsright. BATF (Burn All Toddlers First) is in the game of entrapment. With the aid of technicalities and warrantless searches, they are a modern day Gestapo, and they demonstrated no problem with killing kids, so that being said, they aren't going to hold their fire against law abiders.

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
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    lazeruslazerus Member Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Democracy is not new. Its rumored the greeks invented it. throughout history all democracys eventually voted themselves into socialism, and o r comunism, followed by complete and total collapse, resulting in anarchy. Then everyone alive aquired weapons HALLALULA. Im hoping the internet changes all that.
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