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4 posts per day- PATHETIC

ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
I can't believe that on a gun site forum, we can only get 4 posts per day. This is truly remarkable, Highball, jaflowers, WW, HVoF, Flat8, Defender, gunphreak, shootsright, 65gto389, pickenup, and a few others are it. I think I'll go hide my guns now!

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Comments

  • jaflowersjaflowers Member Posts: 698 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    got to admit that although I read probably 20-30 post a day, most don't even begin to warrant a response. I'm sure you see it also Comengetit. I refuse to get involved with quite a bit of the petty bickering that takes place so frequently.

    One a side thought though it may show us a trend on just how many of us gun owners value our rights enough to speak out against the "man". Like Highball has pointed out, too few will stand in the face of the government when the time really comes to.
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bingo! My sentiments exactly. I find myself saying the same thing over & over. I think I'm growing tired of fighting the flow of traffic. All the sheeple are being led to slaughter and if I don't get out of the way, I'll be sucked into the "sheeples way." No thanks. I sure am glad to see that there are still folks, like all I mentioned above, out there that have a set of cajonies and will not "go with the flow." Likewise I believe a long talk over an ice cold brew may be in order, someday. You too think straight, jaflowers, good to know yah.

    bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangclick swoosh click slide popbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangclick swoosh click slide popbangbang bangbangbang......BOOOOM! Any Questions?
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think this aspect of the forum is getting a little dry, myself. I hardly ever find anything that actually holds my interest, for reasons like it has become common knowledge, it isn't something that surprises me or anyone else, because, by the time I get to it, everything I needed to say on it already has been said, and I am a busy man. Trying to get together capital to take custody of my daughter before something happens to her, and then, get myself into college for a Mechanical Engineering degree (I didn't stay long enough for the one I wanted (MS) and put a workshop in my garage so I can begin the process to be a black rifle/Glock armorer (gunsmith). I have my work cut out for me, so when things cool down a little, I'll be back on more regularly.

    Life is what happens while you're making other plans....

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Comengetit;
    Guys like you are precisley the reason I stay around to post. Remember that 3% figure ? That means 97 out of 100 are just riding on the shoulders of 3..contemptable.

    Also means that those that live in reality have very few people to visit with. Gun Rights mean NOTHING to most over on General as long as they are still able to jump thru the hoops to buy this or that gun...indeed, the brain-washing has reached the extent that many of those buying full-auto weapons feel a very real sense of superority over those who do not...when big daddy pats them on the head and
    gives permission to buy, these little boys who never grew up feel HONORED...a truly sickening situation I finally tumbled to, a few years ago...

    Take a poll, my friend...ask a serious question on General..I have in the past. Asking them how many believe in some form of gun control.

    90% will answer in the affirmative...and the alternative...actually PUNISHING those misusing guns...is repugnant to them.
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like gunphreak, I have a number of irons in the fire. Especially this time of year, it seems. Just getting ready for winter takes a while up here. Clearing out the yard. (parting out 3 trucks, making a trailer out of one of them) Finally gave up on trying to figure out what was wrong with the snowplow, took it to the shop.

    Having a yard sale that literally took 2 full days to set up. (will run it for a few weekends) Each day next week we will be digging out more stuff, which will NOT be brought back in, when the sale is over. This is the LAST time I will see this stuff.
    (pickenup is getting-rid-of)

    Like others, a lot of times, what I would say has already been said. It is surprising sometimes the different responses that you get when you post the same thread in both forums. Considering that, there are a few members "out there" that I would rather NOT see "in here" [;)]

    The "Gun Rights" issues are kind of quiet right now. There doesn't seem to be any big "gun rights" grabs going on right now. (Other than some individual states trying to pass a ridiculous law or two. (P.S.) I would think the NRA, GOA, (et all) could REALLY help these states, since they do not have any major federal battles to fight)

    Quite a few states have been able to pass a CCW law, and others are on the verge. (NOT that I think you should have to ASK PERMISSION to carry!!! Vermont style carry FOR ALL) But some see it as a positive, and "the other side" definitely sees it as loosing ground. The (ahem) AWB expired without "too much" trouble.

    Why do you think that is? Are they gearing up for something REALLY BIG? Is it just because it's not election time, and they do not feel the need to impress their constituents at this time? Or maybe, was the "UN-patriot act" enough for a while? Once the true impact from that filters down, even the most fervent ostrich will have to pull his/her head out of the sand, and take notice. I know "some" see it for what it really is, and fear what`s to come.

    Or are more people waking up, contacting their representatives when any kind of UNCONSTITUTIONAL legislation is proposed. As well as contacting the media, when they put their wrongful slant on topics. NOT sitting on their lazy backsides, accepting whatever comes along, as they have for so long. Rather voicing their opinion saying, "We are watching you, and we are NOT going to take it anymore." OK, OK, I am getting a little carried away here. A fella can dream, can't he?



    P.S. Best wishes gunphreak.



    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, pickenup.

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
    "Followers of Christ, be armed."
  • 65gto38965gto389 Member Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Comengetit
    I can't believe that on a gun site forum, we can only get 4 posts per day. This is truly remarkable, Highball, jaflowers, WW, HVoF, Flat8, Defender, gunphreak, shootsright, 65gto389 , pickenup, and a few others are it. I think I'll go hide my guns now!





    At least someone will remember my name.[;)]

    And no I do not want your guns, I just carry on conversation about various topics.









    " Those who give up a little freedom for temporary security, deserve neither freedom nor security "
    - Benjamin Franklin
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    A sad state of affairs. Some of us old guys have been in the trenches for a long time. Some of us are pretty rough on those that we call "Compromisers"..after watching them barter away the Second Amendment.

    Some of us have taken the gloves off...and call that type 'fellow travelers'...they work hand in hand with the Socialists/Fascists that infest the government and various letter agencies that infest this once free land. Lots of them dislike having facts thrown up in their faces..they prefer darkness, like cockroaches...

    20,000 gun laws, people...still feel great compassion and kindness towards those forcing you to crawl on your bellies...asking permission before you can exercise what the NRA laughingly calls a "Right"....hmmm ?
  • chunkstylechunkstyle Member Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Averaging a little over 2 posts a day for 3 years.

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    ~Sinclair Lewis, It Can't Happen Here

    "Our enemies...never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
    ~President George W. Bush
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's not really about the amount of posts, it's that you DO post. Sooner or later someone, whether accidentally or intentionally, will come up with the perfect solution. Until that day comes I, for one, will keep on posting. Who knows I may be inspired by a certain post to unwittingly be the one with the "Golden Thread." Nah, but it could happen.

    all should be re-inspired by what is happening in Louisiana. Sad? Most definitely. But, as we all know, you have to hit rock bottom before you begin to fix the issues at hand. We may not be rock bottom right this second, but we are one well orchestrated terrorist attack away from total bedlam. This, mt friends, as much as I hate to say it, is a necessary evil.

    Although I am somewhat excited at the possibilities, my heart goes out to the poor, black, welfare gettin', too many baby havin', no common sense sportin', neighbor shootin', community robbin' folks in New Gorleans, NOT!

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Comengetit;
    You, my friend, with you last post....have said a mouthfull...
    quote:It's not really about the amount of posts, it's that you DO post. Sooner or later someone, whether accidentally or intentionally, will come up with the perfect solution. Until that day comes I, for one, will keep on posting. Who knows I may be inspired by a certain post to unwittingly be the one with the "Golden Thread." Nah, but it could happen.

    I am guilty of something...that being painting such a dismal picture...SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE out there...will be disturbed enough by the horrible consequences of the decent into tyranny I postulate..somebody smarter then I...will come up with the 'silver bullet', so to speak...that will bring the politicians back to being Americans, with the good of America being FIRST in their minds.
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So highball, am I to assume that you agree?

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931
    edited November -1
    Gotta say I post when I feel like posting. As for the big show, I'll be there for both sets of credits.


    Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
  • WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This flurry of activiy over the past week+ has pushed me from 0.4 posts per day to 0.7 posts per day. [;)]

    quote:Sooner or later someone, whether accidentally or intentionally, will come up with the perfect solution. Until that day comes I, for one, will keep on posting. Who knows I may be inspired by a certain post to unwittingly be the one with the "Golden Thread."

    quote:SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE out there...will be disturbed enough by the horrible consequences of the decent into tyranny I postulate..somebody smarter then I...will come up with the 'silver bullet', so to speak...that will bring the politicians back to being Americans, with the good of America being FIRST in their minds.

    I believe this is the hope that we all hold, whether it is a wild goose chase or not. After all, it's kinda like what Ted Turner basically said the other night on Letterman, "Hope is what prevents people from becoming terrorists."

    -WW

    wwsm.GIF
    MOΛΩN ΛABE



    samsm.gif"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."
    -Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well guys, I posted the Poll as suggested on "General". Was going pretty well, for the most part until this morning. Seams we're posting on a site that doesn't support the first amendment and doesn't care about the second. This morning Rapid Fire told me to post elsewhere, that all of my posts belong somewhere else. Wow, talk about proving my point! Well I responded. I did not swear nor was I disrespectful in my return volley. I didn't want to turn it into some childish war of words but what I said he had coming and I was done. Nunn deleted the post, so I'll have to gather my statistics elsewhere. God forbid I ask about feelings on the second amendment on a gun site. Totally fricken disgusting. My email is sbwhit20@yahoo.com I'll be around unless they dump me for once again exercising my right to free speech.

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unfortunatly, too many people (including gun owners) like to tell other people what they "need" and "don't need". If I hear "you don't need an AK-47 to duck hunt" one more time I'm gonna puke.

    I'd love to tell all the suburbanite soccer-moms what they need and don't need.

    They don't need their 2 ton SUV that seats 12....

    They don't need their cell phone (it's amazing how people used to get along without them, ain't it?), especially when driving their 2 ton SUV...

    They don't need $4000 fake boobs....well some don't, anyways [;)]


    All I ask is to be left alone, which is something the govt. seems increasingly unwilling to do.....

    Molon Labe
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rapid Fire-I'm in left field? Why, because I believe that our civil rights are slowly and methodically being taken away, or is it because I don't like democraps, or is it because I think the Muslim religion is responsible for over 5,000 American deaths, or is it because that little poll I had going was beginning to prove my point, or is it because I actually have people that agree with ME?

    I had absolutely nothing against you until you decided to get up in my face at which point I returned the courtesy. Rapid Fire it seems to me that I definitely got at you otherwise you wouldn't have had to run to nunn and have him delete your public spanking. You shouldn't meddle in other peoples business it's not nice. Then you come over here and instigate another knuckleduster, some people never learn. If you'd like another lesson in the wise ways of MAN, I'd be happy to oblige. Otherwise go back from whence you came where the topic of discussion is at a level that you may be able to handle, say like, "I got fired today" or "I bought a dog." This is a gun forum and you have managed to survive a long time, if your post count is accurate, by dodging the issues. If that is what makes you feel good about yourself then you sit back and the rest of us will see to it that your children get to experience freedom although, I'm finding it more and more difficult to believe that you would find anyone to have your children.

    I was finished with this whole thing, I came back "where I belong," said my piece and was moving on. You came over here and attacked me, so don't give me any of this he is an agressive sweetie crap either. I half expected to see a post from you over here. I know I let myself get drawn into this, but if I didn't want to be I wouldn't have been. Take your best shot or take your happy * back to the hopelessly pathetic existence you have over in "General" where you can talk about anything but the 1st through 10th amendments or anything in general. I'll keep right on talking about the tough issues so you can go compare recipes.

    By the way, rocking the boat is the only way 90% of the problems are resolved and thanks for your concern but I swim just fine. TTFN

    Sincerely yours,
    comengetit

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • jaflowersjaflowers Member Posts: 698 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To Comengetit, Highball and the rest of my brothers on this board; how many of you have read Unintended Consequences by John Ross? Just curious. It's now in my very small library and is one of my favorites. I imagine quite a few if not all of you have read it but if not I HIGHLY reommend it. This to some degree is what I do envision as happening in the not too far off future. I,for one, am actually hoping that the end of that book does come to pass and quickly also.
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm glad I could make you puke, I have powers beyond my awareness. By the way is that IT? If it is can you scurry back over to General, we have to talk about MAN stuff here.

    By the way, nice job on fitting the "I have ate supper with him" in there. I know how much that meant to you. Now tuck your tail and go. Oh, one more thing, if nunn didn't delete the post, who did? I'll be sure and let him know how you really feel about him.

    quote: I didn't mail or have Nunn pull your post. I have ate supper with him and he has more commom sense than you could ever possibly obtain . WHAT?

    jaflowers- I have not read that book but I will most definitely read it. Oh and [;)]

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And you are in desperate need of a reality check. Don't threaten me little man, I thought I told you to go back over there! If you would like the last word feel free. I will not respond again. Oh, my side, your killin' me. You certainly do have a mighty sharp wit there son.

    One more thing, I didn't smear the BATFE. They didn't need any of my help, all I did was cut and paste.

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, now I'm totally confused. You just brought back, from the dead, a post from March. That post supports what I have been saying. Are you trying to suck up now?

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yeah well, a man will fight harder for his interests than his rights. But, what luck for rulers that men do not think. and you know, ...obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken. The stronger must dominate and not blend with the weaker, thus sacrificing his own greatness.

    Whose quotes are these?

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone who quotes Yogi is alright in my book, even if it was to further a point. There's hope for you yet my friend. Can we be done now?

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I have indeed read 'Unintended Consequences"..the ending was not a happy one, in my opinion.

    You may have read one of my posts about people passing this or that government 'test ' to own a gun..and the feelings of being superior to other mere mortals that gives them ?
    Select-Fire is a prime example of that. He has jumped thru all the hoops to own full-auto weapons...and rarely misses a chance to point out to all and sundry just how special he is because of it.
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dave,
    Although I admire your enthusiasm, if you'll look up just about 2 spots you'll see where Rapid Fire and myself have burried the hatchet or at least I think we have. I'm not exactly sure what "yep" means, but I'm going to take it as we have blown off our steam and we are finished now. Sorry to the board for using this as a place to exude my anger. Oh, Dave, I hide from no one. Some may think I'm too quick to pounce but I know what I believe and I'll take it as far as need be. Evidentally so will Rapid Fire. I at least respect his right to voice his opinion and the fact that he never backed down. Perk up old buddy, we're gonna win. The last thing I would be doing is arguing when the SHTF. I may be only one, but I'll be there.

    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Select fire;
    I may indeed buy a full auto some day. They still strike me as terribly wastefull of ammo.
    However...there will be no coverup on my part...I realize that I am crawling on my belly so that I can exercise a "right'..in other words..no rights at all. The same holds true for the instant check...and ALL other forms of 'permission to buy a gun' from the government.
    That is the ONLY disagrement I have had with you. "Cept I can't remember you stand on felons...[:D]
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WOW!
    [B)][B)][B)][B)][B)]
    "90% of the game is mental, the other 50% is physical"- Yogi Berra, New York Yankees
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Now you have forced me to admit that when Unk Sam introduced me to them about...ummm..35-38 years ago....a rank kid out of the hills, used to a 303 British..I bout...ummm..had a problem with involuntary reactions....

    1500 yards, barrels...and the sound of the bullets actually pinging into them. From there, it was like a dream...or a nightmare, depending on what time of day or night it is.

    Buddy of mine makes the run to Knob Creek twice ever year...and puts the pressure on me to go every year.....I have resisted...my bolt actions and single shots keep me broke enough as it is...
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ROFLMAO....AAAwwwwww Highball, you kill me. I never know when your serious or being absolutely hysterical. Reminds me of a line in a movie.....go figure.

    "Lee Harvey, you're a madman. When your friend stole the cow and you tried to make it with the cow, I wanna' party with you cowboy."- Stripes, Bill Murray. [:0][:D]
  • jaflowersjaflowers Member Posts: 698 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    this post has really had several topics. now we are onto full autos eh. Well I know it's wishful thinking but I for one long for the day that the whole "registration" of full autos and other class 3 and destructive devices is overthrown. I know, I know.... don't hold my breath. I'd settle for a good old amnesty day if I had to though. NOT SAYING I HAVE ANYTHING ILLEGAL! It'd be nice to pick up a few things at a reasonable price.

    Solothurn, G3, M-249, M-79[:p]
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All I need are an M-16, an M-60, and 1 Barrett .50BMG and ammo of course. Well maybe an MP5 or an AK-47 Select Fire or an UMP.....and this!mortmissa.jpg



    There are two kinds of people in this World.....Those that lead....And those that get the hell out of the way....GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
  • shootstrightshootstright Member Posts: 342 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cool dual !
    The DemocRATS all seam to follow the leader and the leaders are from the crap for brains libs. Nit wits like Boxer , Shumocker and F#*kenStien . PaloCCCCCC, now she is at the top of the list of nit wits so they made her the leader of the pack. If you want to here how stupid a person is just give them a microphone and let talk. PaloCCCCCC is proof of this.
    The right folks spend way to much time bickering and miss the boat, but it's fun and we should never stop for it is not boring it's what keeps us all reading these post.
    This is why libs are borrrrring, they all spout the same crap.
    But when it comes time to make a stand most of us will be up against the unarmed liberals who fear guns and hire us gun people as body guards.
    As for stock piles of ammo all you need is what you can carry and MG's are heavy .
    One shot one kill.
    The only good liberal is one that has assumed a horizontal position .
    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
    Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Comengetit,
    Gonna have to learn ya about postin pics. [:o)]
    Can't post it from your computer.
    Have to host it online.
    Go here, sign up and follow their instructions for loading one to their site. It's easy.

    http://photobucket.com

    Once you get the pic there, copy the third URL that is under the pic "as is" and paste it, to post it here.

    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the tip. What was happening when I did it the other way?

    Turn and burn Mav....Jesters DEAD!
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Well,I wern't joking about that first M-60 rockin' and rollin'...jeepers, what a charge that was.

    Unless one can visualise a better day..a day when decent citizens are once again in control of their government...one is doomed to watch forever more our decent into tryanny.

    You want a full-auto ? That weapon ought to be traded like it was a .45...which ought to be traded on the courthouse lawn on a Saturday afternoon.
    Remember..unless you are AWARE there is a better way..you cannot work towards that better way.
  • jaflowersjaflowers Member Posts: 698 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    M-60's are fun aren't they. Love the last verion the E-3. Shoot them whenever I can.[:D]
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey ah Highball, what in the bajeezuzz bell are you talkin' about? [:p][:0][:D][:D][:D][;)]

    There are two kinds of people in this World.....Those that lead....And those that get the hell out of the way....GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Well...which time ??? [:0]
  • ComengetitComengetit Member Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Highball-This one.

    quote:You want a full-auto ? That weapon ought to be traded like it was a .45...which ought to be traded on the courthouse lawn on a Saturday afternoon.

    I have stirred up a hornets nest over in General. Posted that "Is the Bible for real?" or something like that. Man oh man, they're gettin' busy in there.[}:)][}:)][}:)][:p][:p][:0][^]

    There are two kinds of people in this World.....Those that lead....And those that get the hell out of the way....GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Comengetit;
    Just a statement of fact. Buying a full auto ought not be any more difficult then buying a .45.

    When I grew up, back in the waning days of freedom, guns were traded down at the courthouse, by guys sitting on benches spitting and whittling. Along with knives and whatever else men swap off....

    The idea of asking some "Daddy". "Daddy, can I buy this gun"..would have been repugnant to those old men. Even full auto's were swapped in those days, 40 years ago..before the beast used our money to get powerful and all-seeing enough to interfere in EVERYBODIES life...
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