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Gun show Virgina whats up with this
shootstright
Member Posts: 342 ✭✭✭
Does any one know wants up with the 500 federal agents at a Virgina gun show . The word is it was a dry run for a way to stop gun shows.
Comments
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1347136.html
It is scary that I was only able to find one article about this, but here it is. The truth is out there.
-WW
MOLON LAVE
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
ATFE = A$%holes Taking Freedoms Everywhere
ATF = Americans Tired-of Freedom
" Those who give up a little freedom for temporary security, deserve neither freedom nor security "
- Benjamin Franklin
The reporter that did the report on it was on the Lars Larson radio show . It did not sound good.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
NRA write your Rep. will save a stamp
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/home/
GOA
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm
Jeff Johnson
Senior Staff Writer
(CNSNews.com) - The federal agency that regulates U.S. gun dealers stands accused, along with at least three Virginia law enforcement agencies, of trying to shut down legal gun shows through alleged intimidation of gun buyers and sellers. The law enforcement organizations also allegedly broke the law by sharing gun buyers' information with members of the public.
Annette Gelles, owner of gun show sponsor Showmasters.us, told Cybercast News Service that at least 30 agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) along with nearly 500 Virginia State Police, Henrico County Police and Richmond City Police officers were assigned to the ATF operation targeting her gun show on Aug. 13 and 14 at the Richmond International Raceway and Fairground Complex, outside Richmond, Va.
Gelles said four marked police cars were stationed at the main entrance to the raceway parking lot and more than 50 marked and unlabeled but obvious law enforcement vehicles were positioned just outside the public entrance to the building. The officers' presence, Gelles said, was intended to intimidate her customers.
"It's just a persecution thing. It's not really an attempt to solve crimes or stop them," Gelles said. "It's their way of trying to get rid of gun shows. That's the only way you can explain that large a police presence at the gun shows."
Gelles said ATF Resident Agent in Charge Brian Swann told her that the officers were part of a "Virginia State Police, ATF task force" and represented the "same amount of force that we've used in all the shows." The only difference in Gelles' case, Swann told her, was that the command post was established at the site of her gun show.
Virginia State Police (VSP) spokeswoman Corinne Geller told Cybercast News Service that her agency does participate in a task force with ATF and other Virginia law enforcement agencies. As part of the agreement that created the task force, Geller said, VSP agreed to refer questions regarding its operations to ATF.
Richmond Police spokeswoman Kirsten Nelson e-mailed her response to questions about the apparent sting operation.
"I have done some checking and as I said on the phone, the gun show was not in our jurisdiction," Nelson wrote, "so I have no record of our officers' participation."
Gelles said the participation of Richmond Police officers in the operation has already been documented, by Richmond Police officers.
"My own Richmond City Police officers that are there, that I hire for my security purposes, told me that they saw 14 (Richmond City Police officers) on Saturday in plain clothes," Gelles said.
Lt. Doug Perry with Henrico County Police acknowledged that his department's officers took part in the operation, but he would not say how many participated.
"We wouldn't normally release that anyway. That's part of our operational plan, the number of officers involved," Perry said. "We're not on overtime when we're doing that so it wouldn't be public information."
One gun show exhibitor said he counted 72 uniformed and plainclothes officers and agents in and around the vehicles near the entrance to the building. Gelles claimed that an unidentified officer tried to stop the exhibitor from counting the number of law enforcement personnel present, but walked away when the exhibitor refused.
While normal attendance at her two-day show is nearly 4,000, Gelles said she attracted approximately 2,300 the weekend of Aug. 13 and 14, costing Showmasters.us more than $7,000.
'There's no way that's legal'
"They did something else, which is highly illegal," Gelles charged. "They did something called a residency check."
Gelles explained that, when gun dealers took the paperwork to the Virginia State Police on-site office to complete the background checks on prospective buyers, ATF agents copied the names, home addresses and telephone numbers of the applicants.
Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, told Cybercast News Service that he has received numerous complaints alleging that as handgun buyers were waiting for their National Instant Check System (NICS) background investigations to be completed, ATF was secretly conducting the so-called "residency checks."
According to the complaints he received, Van Cleave said officers were dispatched to the homes of the prospective gun buyers to speak with family members, asking for example: "Gee, did you know your husband was going to a gun show today? Do you have his cell phone number? Did you know he was buying a gun?
"If people weren't home they, in some cases, went to neighbors" to ask the same questions, Van Cleave said.
"I'm not an attorney but, I'll tell you what, in my opinion that would be a violation of federal law," Van Cleave said. "To go off on a fishing trip with that information, much less sharing information like that with neighbors, there's no way that's legal."
Title 18 Section 923 of the U.S. Code concerns the licensing of gun dealers and appears to support Van Cleave's position. It contains the following restrictions on the information collected during the process of a gun purchase:
"(g)(3)(B) Except in the case of forms and contents thereof regarding a purchaser who is prohibited by [federal law] from receipt of a firearm, the department of State police or State law enforcement agency or local law enforcement agency of the local jurisdiction shall not disclose any such form or the contents thereof to any person or entity, and shall destroy each such form and any record of the contents thereof no more than 20 days from the date such form is received."
VSP's Geller could not comment on the "residency checks," but said the ATF did not get gun buyers' addresses from her agency. "I can assure you, they weren't getting it from our records," Geller said, "because we don't take addresses."
In fact, the "Department of State Police - Virginia Firearms Transaction Record" form asks for the purchaser's name, date of birth, Social Security or driver's license number and citizenship status. No other identifying information, such as addresses or telephone numbers is requested.
But ATF Form 4473, the "Firearms Transaction Record Part I - Over-The-Counter," does request the purchaser's address. Those forms are kept together as part of a "buyer's packet" when the VSP form is submitted for the NICS check.
Erich Pratt, communications director for Gun Owners of America (GOA), told Cybercast News Service that these types of allegations against ATF are exactly why GOA members opposed the NICS background check when it was initially proposed.
"Whenever you force good people to jump through hoops before they exercise their rights, you give rogue bureaucrats a chance to harass decent citizens," Pratt said.
"We have a Bill of Rights because government does not always act in our best interest," he continued. "Rather than being spied upon, the American people should be the ones questioning family members and neighbors - not of gun owners - but of these rogue bureaucrats."
ATF agent allegedly 'got quite rude' with gun show customer
James Lalime, who works part time for a gun dealer, was attending the Richmond show on his own. He had brought two firearms and part of a third from his personal collection to offer for sale at the show, which is legal and does not require a federal firearms license (FFL) or local business license.
Lalime claims a man approached him and verbally identified himself as an ATF agent but did not show his credentials or badge.
"He was accusing me of running a business and telling me that I needed to get a business license if I was going to sell firearms," Lalime charged.
The agent allegedly had state police check Lalime's driver's license and learned that it was suspended. He said he was placed in the back of a police car and questioned by the agent while the suspension was investigated.
"He kept asking me all kinds of questions: 'How often do you buy guns? When do you buy guns? When was the last time you bought a gun? How many guns did you buy the last time you bought guns?'" Lalime continued. "All that is irrelevant and I told him that. I said, 'That's my personal business.'"
Lalime was released when it was learned that his license was valid and the alleged suspension was caused by a computer error. He went back into the gun show and told Gelles about the encounter and she suggested that Lalime get the agent's name.
When he found the agent, who identified himself as Special Agent Brian McComas, Lalime claims McComas tried to intimidate him.
"He said, 'You know you're making a big deal about nothing,' and I said, 'No sir, I am not,'" Lalime explained. "Then he got right in my face, almost touching his chest to mine, in real threatening posture, and said, 'You're making a real big mistake.'"
Lalime claims Swann interrupted the confrontation and the two federal officers walked away. "Once I got over the initial shock, it really made me angry," Lalime said.
ATF is 'out of the residency check business'
Gelles and her attorneys were in Washington, D.C., Aug. 15 to meet with ATF officials and seek an explanation for what happened over the weekend. After talking with several people in the ATF headquarters, Gelles said she finally spoke with a supervisor, whom she would not identify, who assured her that ATF "is out of the residency check business, effective immediately."
She was hesitant to give further details about the meeting in the event that a lawsuit is filed over the agency's actions.
In addition to the $7,000 she said she lost from reduced attendance at the show, Gelles added that she has already spent more than $12,000 in legal fees trying to prevent a repeat of the ATF operation of Aug. 13 and 14 and other previous incidents of what she considers improper agency behavior.
Van Cleave said his groups will be "watching in Virginia with a microscope to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again.
"If they do it again, we'll get active in contacting the ATF, the police and the media," Van Cleave warned. "If they break their word on this and start this crap again, then we will be in touch with the media."
After more than a half-dozen calls by Cybercast News Service seeking comment for this article, an ATF spokesman said the agency was "still gathering information" about the events of Aug. 13 and 14 and would not be able to comment until sometime on Tuesday.
Make media inquiries or request an interview with Jeff Johnson.
Subscribe to the free CNSNews.com daily E-Brief.
E-mail a comment or news tip to Jeff Johnson.
Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.
so-called good cops we hear about? Why weren't arrests made
by those who knew the laws were being broken?
Why should we give respect to those who are also GUILTY
because they do nothing? How can we trust cops who won't
even try to clean up their backyard?
Where the he** are the Serpicos?
You cannot work in a feces-house without smelling like feces!
Pigs fly........
That sort of thing just does NOT happen here in America. We are the land of the free..and people in positions of authority are NOT trying to disarm us...and the President is Pro-Gun..he SAID so....and..and...all's we need do is write LETTERS to our Congressmen...and vote for GOOD men...like President Bush..and write newspaper editorials and letters to newspapers...and...and...
Pigs fly........
yea no joke. that's all anyone ever says and they just don't get the fact that the bas***ds in DC just don't care what we think or want.
[:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]
"Don't look back,Something might be gaining on you"-Satchel Paige
Gun Show Owner, Patrons May File Civil Rights Suit
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
September 12, 2005
(CNSNews.com) - The owner of a gun show targeted by federal law enforcement for a half dozen undercover enforcement operations may join with some of his customers in filing a federal class action civil rights lawsuit against the agencies that participated in the operations.
Virginia State Police (VSP) records obtained through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request by Cybercast News Service confirm that the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) conducted "Task Force" undercover surveillance and enforcement operations in connection with six gun shows in Richmond, Va., between July of 2004 and June of 2005. Richmond City and Henrico County, Va., police also assisted in at least some of the events. Steven Elliot, owner of C&E Gun Shows, noted that all of the shows listed on the VSP records were hosted by his company.
"More people have had their rights violated at my shows than at Annette's show," Elliot said, referring to colleague Annette Gelles, who owns the Showmasters Gun Show, which was the target of another ATF Task Force operation last month.
"They've been pulled over when they left the building and had their guns taken away from them," Elliot continued. "In one case, we had a guy with a valid concealed-carry permit who had his gun confiscated. He had to go to ATF headquarters the next day to pick that gun back up."
As Cybercast News Service previously reported, Richmond and Henrico police officers, acting under instructions from ATF agents, conducted "residence checks," going to certain gun buyers' homes to confirm their residence information. Records obtained through another FOIA request of the Henrico County Police Department support the allegation that some officers shared confidential information about gun buyers with their relatives and, possibly, with neighbors.
"There are a whole lot of people now starting to speak up about things that went on and happened to them and some of the stuff that just wasn't right that ATF did, along with other law enforcement people," Elliot said. "Some are starting to talk and some don't want to talk."
The VSP documents also list 43 guns as "confiscated," a figure that Elliot questions.
"How many of those guns stayed confiscated and how many were actually returned to their rightful owners?" Elliot asked. "We know of at least three."
Attorney Richard Gardiner is an expert on federal firearms laws. He previously told Cybercast News Service that the behavior Elliot described would potentially rise to the level of civil rights violations.
"I think you would have an action against the state and local agents or officers for violation of your federal statutory rights," Gardiner said. "You can recover against individual federal agents for violation of your constitutional rights but not your statutory rights."
Elliot and Gelles are seeking co-plaintiffs for a likely lawsuit against all of the law enforcement agencies involved in the ATF Task Force.
"We have talked with a lawyer and we are considering legal action," Elliot said. "I've got some of the best lawyers, I think, that are available for us for this."
The email address, gunshowsfightback@yahoo.com, has been activated to receive messages from those who believe ATF or other law enforcement officials improperly violated their privacy or tried to discourage them from making lawful firearms purchases at the C&E shows.
"I'm going to talk to my lawyer, also, within the next week or two to try to get enough people involved in this who think they've had their civil rights violated to file a class action lawsuit," Elliot explained. "If we do it, then I'll have a system in place to turn these people over to our attorney to see if their case is actually valid and justified."
Make media inquiries or request an interview with Jeff Johnson.
Subscribe to the free CNSNews.com daily E-Brief.
E-mail a comment or news tip to Jeff Johnson.
Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.
[8D]
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.)
"The great object is that every man be armed . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.)
"The advantage of being armed . . . the Americans possess over the people of all other nations . . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in his Federalist Paper No. 46.)
"If I find you here Tonight, THEY will find you here in the Morning"
There are two kinds of people in this World.....Those that lead....And those that get the hell out of the way....GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
There are two kinds of people in this World.....Those that lead....And those that get the hell out of the way....GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 1948
You must step outside the box to understand the problem.
Illegal immigrants offer no threat to those in power..the Elites.
Their agenda will NOT be met with resistance from people used to living under dictatorships.
Because we the people let them.
Defender
Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
Kingjoey;
You must step outside the box to understand the problem.
Illegal immigrants offer no threat to those in power..the Elites.
Their agenda will NOT be met with resistance from people used to living under dictatorships.
Highball, I understand the problem, I was being a little satirical by looking at it for obvious face value. Once you look past the face value it gets scary in a hurry[V]
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 1948
Bump
Consistency is the final refuge of the unimaginative
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
parabellem
And who authorized 500 federal agents, on payroll, go do this. There has to be an investigation and people have to go to jail. This is criminal.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Remember your 'tide turning' statement ?
This is a 'strong Second Amendment ' president and administration...or so I have been assured repeatedly by "Pro-Second Amendment" "Supporters"....
700 Federal Gun Judges...higher appropriations for the batf....some support.
and get them to talk about it.
Go to the NRA web site and find contact
and ask them whats up with this.
Got to make noise or no one will hear you.[8D]
This will not, however, do anything to save us from the remaining problems that we are surrounded by. As the Patriot Act was inacted we watched our rights go right out the window. The government will fight hard against anyone trying to change the structure of the government and they will rely heavily on the military. I don't believe the military can stomach fighting Americans on American soil. Will they? For awhile they will, but then the losses, for both sides, will begin to mount and the soldiers will slowly begin switching sides and then they will try to convince fellow soldiers to do the same. It is not going to be pretty, but I sure would like to have machine guns legal by then.
It's all speculation and yet it appears to be only a blink of an eye away from reality. This is because, it is. One Waco or Ruby Ridge and the top's going to blow off of this melting pot. Then we shall see who has the "right stuff".
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
parabellem
BATFE WILL NOT BE BACK!
As most of you are aware, there was an unusually high amount of BATFE and other Law Enforcement activity at our Richmond Gun Show August 13 - 14, 2005 and at the Showplace Shows in Richmond, Virginia since May of 2004. It started as enforcement of illegal clauses in HUD residential rental agreements using a Gang Enforcement Grant from the U.S. Department of Justice to fight gangs and violent criminals. It progressed to nothing short of harassment and intimidation of law-abiding citizens.
After three trips to BATFE in Washington, DC, hundreds of hours of work and tens of thousands of dollars in attorney fees ($17,000 and counting), we are in possession of a letter from Acting Special Agent in Charge , Senior Special Agent of the Nation, Jim Cavenaugh, that states in part that "ATF Washington Field Division, will not routinely be present at the Richmond Gun Shows." BATFE has requested that we not post the letter. Our attorney worked for "suitable" wording but however we have decided to remove that posting. We also told verbally in front of four lawyers the BATFE is out of the "residency check" business.
Showmasters is proud of our shows. We have always worked hard to provide safe, moral and ethical shows for our patrons. We are family oriented with a conservative customer base. GANGS DO NOT CONGREGATE IN OUR SHOWS!!! There are not a large number of criminals in our shows at all! Two people were identified by NICS background check with outstanding warrants for arrest. One person was arrested at the August 13 - 14, 2005 show. The other left before being arrested because of the delay caused by the BATFE "residency check." Four hundred fifty law enforcement to arrest one person is a waste of limited law enforcement resources. Crime statistics are useful in determining where to direct limited law enforcement resources. Consider that according to a United States Department of Justice a study entitled "Firearm Use by Offenders" that 0.7 of guns used in crimes come from gun shows. The same study shows less than 18% violent criminals even use a gun during the commission of the violent crime. The type of harassing activities engaged in by BATFE, Virginia State Police, Richmond City Police and Henrico County Police will not be tolerated. If you feel your rights were violated by these agencies at any of our shows, or the shows at the Showplace in Richmond, Virginia please send an e-mail to gunshowsfightback@yahoo.com.
If your home was visited by police for a "residency check", if you were stopped on the road by a police vehicle in tandem with BATFE and had your guns, ammo or magazines confiscated or you were intimidated or discouraged from purchasing a gun and you are a law-abiding citizen you probably had your rights violated, i.e. Privacy Rights, Fourth Amendment and Second Amendment Rights! If your gun was confiscated because you live in public housing you can probably get your gun back since it was illegal to take in the first place. Please e-mail gunshowsfightback@yahoo.com.
We are accepting money for legal fees. Thank you to those who have already sent money. As of November 3, 2005 Showmasters and C & E Gun Shows has incurred legal fees over $17,000. We expect another $15,000 in legal fees. Problems began in November 2003 at the Raceway Show where Curio and Relic Dealers were told they could not sale out of state by transferring to a Virginia dealer. After much argument with BATFE and quoting legal codes such as Title 18, Section 973 among other codes we were forced to call the attorney and $2,000 later we were in possession of a letter from BATFE's legal counsel second in command that said YES they could. It shows how much we have been through. One hundred year old, three thousand dollar flintlocks aren't used in crime and yet they pursued them. There is much more to this story. NRA has scheduled a congressional oversight hearing. We could use some help!
Thanks for your continued support. Hope to see you at the shows.
Annette Gelles, Owner of Showmasters
Copied from here. Contains a link to the letter.
http://www.showmasters.us/page2.html
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Still, we have gone almost 10 years now and its no better. The new way they are trying to close our store is the "three strikes" and you loose your FFL. I have posted the problem in the forum with lots of great input from everyone. It seems to me that the ATF has no problem trying EVERYTHING (legal or not) to keep guns away from us. How can we be a problem to them? Is there any way to really give them a taste of their own tactics?
I don't mean get the guns and go "get them"...more like starting a suit because of the illegal search through personal info....anything to annoy them for a change. Maybe if we could keep them defending themselves for a while we could get a break for a while. We have all kinds of things to hold over them....look at the past 20 years and all that the ATF has done to everyone. We have a legal right to hold THEM accountable.
Thanks for the up date.
This is good info.[8D]
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
February 13, 2006
JPFO ALERT: BATFE Hearings to be Webcast
The BATFE Congressional hearings that we announced last
week http://www.jpfo.org/alert20060209.htm will be
broadcasted live via webcast on February 15 at 4:30pm EST.
For details, please visit
http://judiciary.house.gov/schedule.aspx and click the 15th
on the calendar shown.
We ask that you pay particular attention to who would dare
to defend this rogue agency, who tries to cover up for
their arrogance, and who tries to "compromise" (read:
"betray") gun owner rights.
Please share this alert with the millions of other gun
owners in the US and ask them to watch the proceedings. Do
your "representatives" indeed represent YOU?
HOUSE HEARS CONCERNS ABOUT RICHMOND GUN SHOW
On Wednesday, February 15, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee's
Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security heard testimony
from individuals affected by heavy-handed enforcement tactics of the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) at a gun
show in Richmond, Virginia last August.
According to the gun show organizer, Annette Gelles of Showmasters,
dozens of BATFE and local law enforcement officers intrusively
questioned dealers and customers, tried to discourage people from buying
guns, and stopped show attendees on the roads after they left. In some
cases, customers' lawfully purchased guns were confiscated, and returned
only when the customers visited BATFE's office for more questioning. In
other cases, local police officers visited gun buyers' homes to conduct
"residency checks"-intrusive questioning of family members and even
neighbors.
One show visitor, James Lalime, a private citizen who sometimes works
for a dealer at the local gun shows, testified that he was interrogated
by BATFE and other law enforcement personnel who accused him of dealing
in firearms without a license. John White, a show exhibitor, licensed
dealer, and former police officer, testified that he appreciates law
enforcement officials' efforts to prevent illegal sales, but that
enforcement activities went too far-especially in focusing on buyers who
were women or members of minority groups. Suzanne McComas, an
investigator for NRA-ILA, also testified and provided sworn affidavits
from individuals who were singled out for BATFE attention, apparently on
the basis of race or sex.
The subcommittee members were upset with what they heard. Subcommittee
Chairman Howard Coble (R-NC) questioned whether the operations were "a
proper allocation of resources," and suggested that "49 law enforcement
officers could have found a better way to curb criminal activity in the
Richmond area." Over the next few months, the same subcommittee expects
to hold additional oversight hearings on this and other BATFE
activities, including both citizen witnesses and BATFE officials. Watch
the Grassroots Alert for more details as they're available.
If you missed Wednesday's hearing, you can view it in its entirety at
http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=214
[:D]
BATFE ABUSE AT RICHMOND, VA GUN SHOWS
On February 15, the U.S. House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security will hold an oversight hearing (the first of three BATFE-related hearings) to investigate apparent wrongdoing by BATFE at a Richmond, VA gun show last August.
In 2004-05, a troubling pattern emerged at a number of Richmond, VA-area gun shows, where hundreds of BATFE agents and state and local police staked out local shows. Immediately upon learning of these incidents, NRA began investigating and working to ensure congressional oversight hearings would be held to determine any wrongdoing and ensure BATFE was not overstepping its bounds or violating the law.
BATFE agents copied lawful gun purchase transaction records and provided this information to local police officers, who in turn conducted "residency checks." Federal law prohibits the release of this information except in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. The information provided to local police prompted multiple instances of officers showing up at the homes of those who lawfully purchased firearms from licensed dealers. When the lawful purchasers were not at home, agents questioned family members (for example, inquiring of a wife if she knew her husband was at a gun show and/or had purchased a firearm) or their neighbors. In other cases, reports surfaced of lawful gun owners and holders of valid carry permits having their firearms confiscated.
Those interested in watching the hearing online may do so at http://judiciary.house.gov/schedule.aspx. The hearing is scheduled to begin at approximately 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday, February 15.
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
February 17, 2006
(CNSNews.com) - Agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), allegedly acting without warrants or legislative authority to do so, seized firearms from at least 50 gun show patrons in Virginia according to congressional testimony and an agency document made public Wednesday. Witnesses also testified that African-American and female gun buyers in Richmond, Va., and Pittsburgh, Pa., were profiled based on their race or sex and some in Pittsburgh were threatened with arrest by ATF agents for alleged actions that are not violations of law.
Rep. Howard Coble (R-N.C.) chairs the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, which has jurisdiction over ATF. While he supports the agency's mission, Coble questions some of its tactics.
"ATF reports that 206 [gun show] participants were stopped and interviewed while it confiscated firearms from another 50 participants," Coble said, referring to gun shows in Richmond, Va. "Although most of the firearms were ultimately returned, the purchasers were notified via official letter from ATF that [they] were ordered to appear at the local ATF office to discuss their transactions. In addition, the letter explained that failure to appear could result in an arrest warrant being issued for the alleged charges."
The form letter had blanks for the name of the gun show patron and the date and time they were ordered to appear at the ATF field office, but cited no authority for the gun confiscations or the mandatory office visits.
"An investigation has revealed that you may have violated Title 18 U.S.C. Section 924(a)(1)(A), a crime punishable by imprisonment for up to five years," the letter began. The U.S. Code citation refers, in this instance, to knowingly making a false statement on the ATF Form 4473 "Firearms Transaction Record Part I - Over-The-Counter," which is completed for each firearm purchased from a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL).
"The firearm that you purchased is being taken into ATF custody," the letter continued, citing no authority for the seizure.
Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Va.) said the ATF letter and the reported interrogation of lawful gun buyers raise "serious questions."
"There's a way to have a sting operation that's legal. This dragnet, apparent dragnet, however, is not the way it ought to be done," Scott said. "You have to show probable cause and it can be done. But you ought not just stop people without probable cause and without any indication of guilt."
John White, a former law enforcement officer who is now an FFL operating under the business name "The Gunsmith," said female customers who approached his sales area at the Richmond shows were immediately targeted by the "undercover" officers.
"If a woman showed up at my table, she was surrounded by law enforcement," White recalled. "If the lady walked off and suddenly stopped, they would have bumped into each other. Their surveillance methods were pitiful.
"Every woman that makes a purchase, every woman who comes to my table to buy a gun was automatically [treated as] a straw purchaser," White said. (A "straw purchaser" is a person who can otherwise legally purchase a firearm, but who does so with the intent to illegally provide it to an ineligible buyer such as a convicted felon or an illegal alien. "Straw purchases" are illegal.)
As Cybercast News Service initially reported, ATF agents working with as many as 400 state, county and city police officers near Richmond, Va., conducted so-called "residency checks" on individuals who purchased firearms from the Showmasters Gun Show Aug. 13 and 14, 2005. Uniformed officers went to the homes of prospective gun buyers, while they waited for their National Instant Check System (NICS) background checks to be completed and questioned family members and neighbors about the gun buyers' firearm purchasing habits.
In a subsequent report, Cybercast News Service detailed that ATF had conducted at least seven similar gun show "sting operations" targeting Richmond-area residents since July of 2004. ATF refused to discuss any of the operations with Cybercast News Service and refused to provide any documentation in response to Freedom of Information Act requests filed by the sponsors of the Richmond gun shows.
Suzanne McComas, a licensed private investigator who has worked with the America's Most Wanted television program, was hired by the National Rifle Association (NRA) to gather information about ATF's Richmond operations. During her investigation, she learned that the agency had been conducting "residency checks" in at least one other U.S. city, but using different and "much more intimidating" tactics.
"At Pittsburgh, the Firearms Task Force there that's also headed by the ATF, instead of doing residency checks immediately, they're collecting the 4473 with the purchaser's address on it, then they go knock at the door about a week later and ask, 'Could we see the gun that you bought?'" McComas explained. "There's absolutely no process involved, there's no reason for them to do it. If you cannot produce the gun, they ask you for the sale paperwork. If you refuse to produce the paperwork they put you under arrest for a 'straw purchase.'"
Federal law requires licensed gun dealers to complete an ATF Form 4473 for each firearm sold through their business, in addition to any forms required by the state, county and/or city where they do business. Private sales between individuals, who are not engaged in the firearms trade as a business, are subject to no such federal recordkeeping requirements. Therefore a gun show purchaser could legally sell or even give the gun they purchased to someone else yet have no paperwork to meet the ATF's demand.
"You and I know that, but [a woman who bought a gun and then gave or sold it to someone else, both legally] probably doesn't," McComas told Cybercast News Service. "If she can't produce it, they arrest her for a straw purchase and her life turns into a living hell until she can prove otherwise. It's zero probable cause except for the fact that they thought it was a straw purchase because she was black and she was young and she was female."
McComas questioned not only the legality of the ATF tactics in Pittsburgh, but also the methodology.
"When I asked them what their criteria was for the people that they collected the 4473s on at the Pittsburgh show, the answer I got back was, 'If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. That's all we need,'" McComas continued. "Translation: Under 30 and black, period. That's all they were looking for. Anyone who meets those criteria, they're doing a follow-up on."
She said that, as in Richmond, agents in Pittsburgh were also engaged in activities that gun dealers believe were designed to discourage lawful purchases by minorities.
"Anyone who was a minority, they picked up their 'tail,' if you will, and just followed them through the gun show. When they stopped at a table, the agents would literally stand on one side or the other and watch what they were doing. If they started to purchase a gun [the agents] would ask them why they were buying it, what were they buying it for, what did they need that gun for," McComas related. "It was ridiculous. There was absolutely no reason for it other than the color of their skin."
Rep. William Delahunt (D-Mass.) said he had not intended to attend the hearing, which was held immediately after a subcommittee vote on an unrelated bill, but stayed because he was fascinated by the witnesses' testimony.
"These must be the dumbest ATF agents in the entire agency," Delahunt said. "I am absolutely shocked that they could be that stupid.
"It's almost to the point that it's difficult to believe," he added. "I have never heard of an experience like the ones you recount, but you all seem to be in agreement. It's just mind-boggling."
Rep. Tom Feeney (R-Fla.) expressed curiosity that federal law enforcement officers would not know that the actions described by White and McComas violate federal statutes.
"Did anybody mention that it is a federal crime to deny women or minorities their civil rights?" Feeney asked. "Did anybody mention to the ATF that denying civil rights, including the right to bear arms, is a federal crime?"
Feeney suggested that, since ATF had refused to comply with the Freedom of Information Act requests from the gun show promoters, the subcommittee should request the information they were seeking. Coble noted that such a letter had already been sent.
ATF representatives present at Wednesday's hearing reluctantly identified themselves by raising their hands when asked to do so by Coble. They would not respond to the new allegations raised in the hearing, but referred questions to their press office. ATF officials are expected to testify on the issues raised Wednesday in a second hearing scheduled for Feb. 28.
Update
JPFO ALERT: Part II of BATFE Hearings
Part II of the Congressional hearings on BATFE enforcement
at Virginia gun shows will take place at 2pm EST on
February 28. You can find an archive of Part I at
http://www.jpfo.org/batfehearings.htm , and our original
alert on the BATFE hearings is available at
http://www.jpfo.org/alert20060209.htm
As before, the hearings will be webcast. You can find the
webcast information at
http://judiciary.house.gov/schedule.aspx and clicking on
the date of February 28.
We ask that you pay particular attention to who would dare
to defend this rogue agency, who tries to cover up for
their arrogance, and who tries to "compromise" (read:
"betray") gun owner rights. We're also interested in
discovering whether this hearing -- which is rumored to be
the ATF's response to the original hearing -- will allow
the ATF more time (remember, in the previous hearing, the
witnesses were repeatedly told that there was "going to be
a vote at 5:30" and to "keep it to 5 minutes or less").
Please share this alert with the millions of other gun
owners in the US and ask them to watch the proceedings. Do
your "representatives" indeed represent YOU?
- The Liberty Crew
============================================
February 28, 2006
JPFO ALERT: WE WARNED YOU
In our past alerts concerning the BATFE Congressional
hearings ( http://www.jpfo.org/alert20060213.htm ), we told
you to keep your eyes open and watch for betrayal. Pay
attention to who defends or justifies the actions of the
BATFE. Look for "compromises" that only compromise YOUR
rights.
Not surprisingly, we were right to be concerned.
The hearings, originally scheduled for 2pm EST today, were
quietly rescheduled to 2:30pm. Additionally, the webcast
was dropped, although as of this writing, the link to it is
still on the Judiciary web site
( http://judiciary.house.gov/schedule.aspx ). Callers to
the Judiciary received the explanation that the hearing was
"...scheduled in a room that did not have webcast
equipment."
[We were also reassured that "...the Chairman supports the
Second Amendment." Of course, so does Charles Schumer (
http://www.jpfo.org/2nd-setup.htm ). The real question is,
"How MUCH does the Chairman support it?"]
Although the Judiciary promises that the written testimony
will be on the site
( http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=216 ) by 5pm
EST today, we will have no accurate record of what actually
transpired. The testimony, after all, was submitted earlier
and does not necessarily reflect the actual testimony. It
also does not cover the question and answer period
following the testimony.
Due to this "mishap", we have successfully been prevented
from seeing and hearing our government justify actions
which cannot ethically BE justified (it should be
fascinating to see if any alleged "pro-gun" groups try to
tell us what great friends we have in Congress!).
It's time to "Boot the BATFE," as well as anyone who would
dare defend this rogue agency. Go to
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfe.htm for more information.
- The Liberty Crew
============================================================
SURPRISED.............NOT.