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California Gun Rights
Pennysaver
Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
Heya,
Quick question, long story...
In Spetember 2002 my wife found out she was pregnant with our first and loaded up all of our guns and went to the Murrieta police station to find out how to ship them to her Dad in Ft. Worth. The secretary up front told her to use FedEx to an FFL, but an officer overheard and asked to see the guns in question, so of couse she obliged (yes, she is a blonde). He wasn't bothered by the hunting rifles, shotguns or handguns, but took interest in the MAK-90, the Bushmaster CAR-15 and the Colt Camp Perry Match AR-15 A2. (I used to do quite a bit of shooting when I was ranching, and when I got transferred to LA we bought the AR's for target practice/investments. The MAK I had purchased at a hardware store in Gunnison, Colorado in '93 for $99!)
Unfortunately, the guns had been sitting in the attic for quite a while and hadn't been shot, nor were we aware of the CA "Assault weapon re-registration bill", which no one I've talked to seems to have known about; I have several friends who have since shipped their "ilegal weapons" to friends outside of Mexifornia.
So they were deemed "illegal weapons" and siezed, with charges forwarded to the DA for possession of said weapons. We got proof of purchase for the MAK from the hardware store, but the AR's showed as unregistered as we bought one from B&B Guns in Long Beach, which was then out of business and the other from Turner's, who has an agreement to store all firearms records past one year in the ATF records repository in Needles, CA. I bought the AR in '96 & '97.
Because of the Patriot Act, the DA had to get the records from the ATF, as private citizens can no longer request firearms information.
They got the records and showed my legal proof of ownership/purchase and after about 18 months of wrangling and $15,000 in legal fees I was let go with an infraction and a $360 fine for the MAK, which was outright banned in CA. I think my lawyer hoodwinked the DA into thinking that the POP forms were the "re-registration" forms, so I'm probably pretty lucky.
The judge issued an court order to return the guns (the MAK was ordered destroyed), but when I talked to the property clerk at the MPD, he told me "Judges tell us to do things that are illegal all the time. No guns!"
I've been round and around with this * (crusty old angry retired cop) for almost a year and am thinking about giving up...My Father-in-law told the Ft. Worth Gun Club (where the guns would have been shipped) about the situation and they said "he'll never get those guns back." He asked why and the GC owner looked at the pictures of the guns and said: "because they're using them..."
In fact, the cop(s) who took them told me that they were nicer than any of the guns they had on the force.
I talked to my accountant and I can't write it off, or chalk it up as a donation, but now it's about principle. I want my damn guns back, but pretty much figure I'm *'d.
I've written to the NRA Legal Defense fund, but haven't heard back; my lawyer really wanted to take it to trial based on the constitutionality of the case (big notch in his belt if he won), but couldn't guarantee that even if we won I'd get the guns back, so I kept another $5,000 and walked away with the fine...
So the question after the story is * or not *?
Thanks,
Smitty
Quick question, long story...
In Spetember 2002 my wife found out she was pregnant with our first and loaded up all of our guns and went to the Murrieta police station to find out how to ship them to her Dad in Ft. Worth. The secretary up front told her to use FedEx to an FFL, but an officer overheard and asked to see the guns in question, so of couse she obliged (yes, she is a blonde). He wasn't bothered by the hunting rifles, shotguns or handguns, but took interest in the MAK-90, the Bushmaster CAR-15 and the Colt Camp Perry Match AR-15 A2. (I used to do quite a bit of shooting when I was ranching, and when I got transferred to LA we bought the AR's for target practice/investments. The MAK I had purchased at a hardware store in Gunnison, Colorado in '93 for $99!)
Unfortunately, the guns had been sitting in the attic for quite a while and hadn't been shot, nor were we aware of the CA "Assault weapon re-registration bill", which no one I've talked to seems to have known about; I have several friends who have since shipped their "ilegal weapons" to friends outside of Mexifornia.
So they were deemed "illegal weapons" and siezed, with charges forwarded to the DA for possession of said weapons. We got proof of purchase for the MAK from the hardware store, but the AR's showed as unregistered as we bought one from B&B Guns in Long Beach, which was then out of business and the other from Turner's, who has an agreement to store all firearms records past one year in the ATF records repository in Needles, CA. I bought the AR in '96 & '97.
Because of the Patriot Act, the DA had to get the records from the ATF, as private citizens can no longer request firearms information.
They got the records and showed my legal proof of ownership/purchase and after about 18 months of wrangling and $15,000 in legal fees I was let go with an infraction and a $360 fine for the MAK, which was outright banned in CA. I think my lawyer hoodwinked the DA into thinking that the POP forms were the "re-registration" forms, so I'm probably pretty lucky.
The judge issued an court order to return the guns (the MAK was ordered destroyed), but when I talked to the property clerk at the MPD, he told me "Judges tell us to do things that are illegal all the time. No guns!"
I've been round and around with this * (crusty old angry retired cop) for almost a year and am thinking about giving up...My Father-in-law told the Ft. Worth Gun Club (where the guns would have been shipped) about the situation and they said "he'll never get those guns back." He asked why and the GC owner looked at the pictures of the guns and said: "because they're using them..."
In fact, the cop(s) who took them told me that they were nicer than any of the guns they had on the force.
I talked to my accountant and I can't write it off, or chalk it up as a donation, but now it's about principle. I want my damn guns back, but pretty much figure I'm *'d.
I've written to the NRA Legal Defense fund, but haven't heard back; my lawyer really wanted to take it to trial based on the constitutionality of the case (big notch in his belt if he won), but couldn't guarantee that even if we won I'd get the guns back, so I kept another $5,000 and walked away with the fine...
So the question after the story is * or not *?
Thanks,
Smitty
Comments
Sorry for typos, and sorry if I respond slowly; there is no chance of Web(non)Sense giving me access to the site from work. [:(!]
Smitty
A person should choose his battles wisely.
What will "principle" end up costing you and your family in time, aggravation and money? Any guarantee you'll succeed?
No one can predict the future and answer these questions. You have to make the call.
There's a saying that goes like this:
Give me courage to change that which I can. Give me patience to endure that which I cannot. But most importantly, give me wisdom to know the difference.
Give me the courage to shoot the things I can. Give me the restraint to endure that which I cannot shoot, but most importantly, give me the ammunition to make the difference.
[:D]
With apologies to Slow Hand....
[:D]
With apologies to Slow Hand....
No apologies needed! Pretty good parody, I'd say!
[:)][:)][:)]
quote:Originally posted by gunphreakGive me the courage to shoot the things I can. Give me the restraint to endure that which I cannot shoot, but most importantly, give me the ammunition to make the difference.
[:D]
With apologies to Slow Hand....
No apologies needed! Pretty good parody, I'd say!
[:)][:)][:)]
I figured you'd like that one....[:D]
File your claim with the Judge's Order that you are to receive your property back. Submit current market value estimates from a California FFL. Also submit copies of your legal fees that were in vain in getting your property back with the claim.
Let us know how much you get back.
Move to a free State.
we're in a huge battle here in california and it's heating way up. unfortunately, your colt is on the "List" put out by the DOJ as an Assault Weapon (your bushmaster too). I would try cutting a deal but fighting with the II ammendment as your only argument is more wasted time and money.
My buddies and I started a forum specifically for CA gun laws and they know way more than me. You might try posting there ...
http://forum.knowcaguns.com
just a thought --
I've stood in a PD and shown police a law right in their own copy (not firearm related) that said in plain English they were forbidden to do what they were doing, and after they spent an hour in conference with LTs and such they came back and said yes, you're right, that's what state law says, but it's not our department policy.
To the example at hand, I don't know what you're complaining about. I'd say you're damn lucky to get away with no jail time because, as we all know, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Take your medicine.
[BTW, I'm sure there's a cop somewhere that's wearing one of my pistols on his ankle and/or off duty.]
Original post was 7/23; any update?