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Right to own and carry ------ Knives? UPDATE
pickenup
Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
Updated with new web site...
http://www.kniferights.org/
Want to help fight for your right to own and carry a knife? If so, there is a new kid in town, looking for your help. It's called the "USKTA" or "United States Knife & Tool Association"
The following is a quote from their web site.
If your interested, click on the link below.
quote:The United States Knife & Tool Association (USKTA) is proposed to serve knife and tool owners as their advocate against restrictions on knife and tool ownership and carry. Many industry insiders believe that knife owners are too apathetic, that until they see local or state laws proposed to restrict their freedoms, they won't do anything; that this effort is doomed to failure. They may be right. What I know is that if we don't try, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I believe that this article is a call to arms for knife owners and we need to organize to prevent the ridiculous restrictions faced by owners in places like England and Australia, where most knives we take for granted here in the U.S are illegal, where thousands of knives have been confiscated, where simply carrying a legal knife is itself illegal unless you have a "good reason" to be carrying it, a determination that's almost entirely up to the local cop, and where using a knife in self defense is usually illegal.
Right now we are simply looking to see if there is support for this advocacy organization from knife owners. If we only get a few hundred interested, then the naysayers are right and we'll drop the whole idea. If we get a few thousand to sign up, then we know we're on the right track. That is entirely up to you. Please encourage your fellow knife owners to drop by this page. The success or failure of USKTA rests almost entirely on you spreading the word and engaging your friends and colleagues.
Here is the link to their site.
http://www.uskta.org/
http://www.kniferights.org/
Want to help fight for your right to own and carry a knife? If so, there is a new kid in town, looking for your help. It's called the "USKTA" or "United States Knife & Tool Association"
The following is a quote from their web site.
If your interested, click on the link below.
quote:The United States Knife & Tool Association (USKTA) is proposed to serve knife and tool owners as their advocate against restrictions on knife and tool ownership and carry. Many industry insiders believe that knife owners are too apathetic, that until they see local or state laws proposed to restrict their freedoms, they won't do anything; that this effort is doomed to failure. They may be right. What I know is that if we don't try, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I believe that this article is a call to arms for knife owners and we need to organize to prevent the ridiculous restrictions faced by owners in places like England and Australia, where most knives we take for granted here in the U.S are illegal, where thousands of knives have been confiscated, where simply carrying a legal knife is itself illegal unless you have a "good reason" to be carrying it, a determination that's almost entirely up to the local cop, and where using a knife in self defense is usually illegal.
Right now we are simply looking to see if there is support for this advocacy organization from knife owners. If we only get a few hundred interested, then the naysayers are right and we'll drop the whole idea. If we get a few thousand to sign up, then we know we're on the right track. That is entirely up to you. Please encourage your fellow knife owners to drop by this page. The success or failure of USKTA rests almost entirely on you spreading the word and engaging your friends and colleagues.
Here is the link to their site.
http://www.uskta.org/
Comments
This is destined to be one of those posts where "any bladed instrument", no matter its size or purpose, is going to be okie-dokied by many as being acceptable and that, IMHO, is what will then create even more issues for this association to wade through and address.
They need to figure out exactly what they want to present or argue very early on in the argument because there are 50 individual states plus the D of C here. Great Britain will be much tougher because it houses 4 countries under one roof. And, lots of kids collect exotic "knives" et al so that opens up yet another Pandora's box.
IMHO, they need to do some more homework first before asking these questions.
I've collected knives since I was a kid. Never really got into auto-openers myself, but I have yet to have it explained to me in any coherent way why the government has any business regulating any knife at all. Since I've held this view for many years, I was one of the first to sign up at the USKTA site. Doug Ritter, the site owner and one of the original organizers of USKTA, is well-known in knife collecting circles, both as a master craftsman and a great, well-spoken ambassador from the industry to help sheeple shed their government and media-imposed paranoia of knife users.
The parallels in what Doug is trying to accomplish with USKTA and what the pro-2nd Amendment lobby has been fighting for years is mind-boggling. Most people will see them as two different lobbies, but I don't. Though my personal interest in knives has always been about utility, to deny their shared status as weapons would be ludicrous. As such, I believe they are protected under the 2nd Amendment every bit as much as guns are. Doug and USKTA will, hopefully, drive that message into the thick skulls of Congress Critters, and with any luck, the sheer stupidity of the overbearing federal knife laws will land them all at the bottom of the trash heap of historical social-engineering blunders.
I wish Doug and USKTA all the luck in the world, and encourage anyone who is even slightly distrusting of their government to at least sign up at the site for future notifications of the progress in organizing a viable grass-roots lobbying effort to protect your/our rights. At this point there's no money involved. Signing up at the site is just a way to say, "I might be interested, keep me posted."
Blues
That being said..its MY job to protect myself...and I vowed to never again go to a knife fight with a beer bottle.
The fact the we have allowed the fedgov to limit knives is yet again pointing out how we have been emasculated..a nation of cowards.
What knife rights are we speaking of. . . I guess it never really occured to me that knives are regulated. Is it illegal to carry a switchblade? a fixed blade knife? a machete? [?]
Pickenup
What knife rights are we speaking of. . . I guess it never really occured to me that knives are regulated. Is it illegal to carry a switchblade? a fixed blade knife? a machete? [?]
Rusty, not to step on pickenup's toes, but if you go to the site he linked to you'll find another link to a Wall Street Journal article from a couple of weeks ago. It's full of hyperbole decrying the evils of easy accessibility to knives of all stripes, but it focuses mainly on "tactical" knives. The truly hilarious thing in the article is the one single picture they use to demonstrate the kinds of "weapons" they were writing about. Here it is:
That's a Buck Metro. It fits nicely on a keychain and has a 1-1/8" blade! Because it has a thumb-hole for one-handed opening, it's considered a "tactical" knife.
You really need to read the WSJ article to get the full flavor of the simple-minded idiocy that passes for legitimate social commentary in these troubled times. Here's a link to a reprint of the article so you don't have to join the WSJ site to read it:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06206/708441-28.stm
As to what kinds of laws we're talking about, federal law prohibits the sale of auto-openers across state lines (mail and/or internet sales) unless the buyer is LE, military, EMT or handicapped. State and local laws are varied. Some jurisdictions, like here in Alabama, don't regulate knives hardly at all, and what laws do exist in that regard are so ambiguous and antiquated, that the state doesn't prosecute on violations very often, if at all. In other states, such as California, knives are regulated nearly as much as guns. Some states and local jurisdictions regulate folding knives more than fixed blades, others are vice-versa, and still others go strictly by length of the blade. Some places allow only open carry no matter what size or style the blade is, and others mandate the exact opposite. And then of course, there are combinations of all of these kinds of laws in some locales, making it impossible for the average Joe to know when he's breaking the law just by virtue of crossing a City Limits, County or State Line.
Bottom line, yes, knives are overly-regulated just like guns are, and the WSJ article highlights the ignorance that led us to this oppressive state of affairs. The article was just the catalyst for the formation of USKTA, but the need for such an organization is a long-standing one.
Blues
What the hell difference does it make. If I had a single shot blackpowder pistol then I could probably defeat 90% of all knife fighters from outside a 21 foot distance. So does that mean single shot blackpowder pistols should be banned because they will be lethal in a knife fight at 21+ feet? If somebody comes at me with a scimitar then I can shoot them in the head with a .22LR pistol. Does that mean that all .22LR pistols should be banned? The banning of any bladed weapon is just the next phase of disarming citizens of ALL weapons. How good are you at defending yourself with a hoe or shovel? Because that is where we are headed.
quote:As to what kinds of laws we're talking about, federal law prohibits the sale of auto-openers across state lines (mail and/or internet sales) unless the buyer is LE, military, EMT or handicapped.
What the hell? What freakin moron came up with this one? Is there some idiot in Washington doing simulations on whether an ex-con with a scimitar would defeat a guy in a wheelchair with a switchblade? WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!
Can an EMT use a switchblade in a more acceptable way than the average citizen, therefore he is priviledged enough to buy one across state lines? If I cut somebody out of their seatbelt after a car wreck with a switchblade then I am a criminal, but if an EMT does the same then they are a hero? What in God's name has this country come to???
Jolly good question.
May I take a 'stab' at it ?
Ball-less, soulless, run out seeds of giants..the Founders. Emasculated wimps content to allow garbage the power of life and death over us..and content to walk about unarmed so even the street trash can kill us. Seems the only men left in America ARE the street trash..at least they confront THEIR victims face to face...unlike the garbage sitting in legislatures.....
quote:This is destined to be one of those posts where "any bladed instrument", no matter its size or purpose, is going to be okie-dokied by many as being acceptable and that, IMHO, is what will then create even more issues for this association to wade through and address.
Just so we're clear, WoundedWolf, my comment was not in any way one of opposition. Frankly, my .357 at 15' beats a Dragoon's lance any day of the week. But that's not the issue here.
My comment was intended to draw attention to the fact that the knife-control activists will cleverly seize the opportunity and structure their agenda so that any time devoted to discussing knives on the legislature floors will most likely be consumed with arguments over Persian scimitars, Excalibur swords et al instead.
IMHO, we have to work smarter - not necessarily harder - if there's any hope of achieving success.
I notice the switch blade has been brought up. I am curious as to why the switch blade is considered more dangerous than any other pocket knife.
Until the early 1960's you could buy a quality, large as you wanted, switch blade knife. Pres. Kennedy outlawed them nationwide, although I am sure that many cities beat him to such outlawing. I believe it was the same mindset that caused Clinton to ban "assault weapons"."Assault weapons look scary to liberals and therefore they want to ban them. Also, with the one handed push of a button, a switch blade can go from being just a pocket knife to being a dagger ready for action and of course this frightens the liberals since they mistrust most citizens and think that if you let a citizen carry a weapon, then that citizen will change into a vicous, blood thirsty murderer.
I have long wondered why the average citizens are so willing to live under most of the local laws that prevent such citizens from legally carrying a concealed, lock blade knife, club, dagger, etc. when you read about so many animal attacks on pets and on humans (Pit bulls, bears, cougers, etc) My feeling is that the average lawful citizen should be able to freely carry a concealed weapon. If is pathetic to read about citizens having to use bricks, boards, rocks, eetc. to fight off animal attacks. Those citizens, if they wish, should have been allowed to carry their weapon of choice and to carry that weapons concealed so as to avoid any unwanted and unneeded comments and/or actions against them when another citizen or LEO notices any visible weapon they might carry to avoid being in violation of the anti-concealed carry law.
Take my town here in KS. If myself, a 64 year old grandfather, took my 4 year old grandson for a walk, and say I stuck an extendible baton or large knife in my pocket for possible protection I would be in violation of local laws.
While at the same time, if some criminal wanted to roam the streets and be able to carry and use a large knife or extendible baton to commit a crime, the laws about not carrying concealed will not be obeyed by that criminal. Especially when that criminal plans on violating much more serious laws (armed robber, murder, etc,) than just carrying concealed.
Such laws as I just described are bad laws and only control the already lawful; the very citizens who are not going to cause you any trouble anyway.
Owning a switchblade or dagger et al or carrying any knife with a blade length wider that one's first three fingers has been illegal and against the Sullivan Law since 1911. Having one automatically infers that you "imported" it from Long Island or another state. Guilty! Any kind of lockback blade is, in theory, against the law as well but there is some common sense employed on that one.
Carrying such a knife or blade concealed is therefore indefensible in court and so, you easily lose. Trust me when I tell you that 99.99% of the lawyers in NYC would plead it down, tell you to cop to it and do some time. And there goes your entire life in one fell swoop.
Kind of hard to make any kind of stand from behind bars, even if it's just 90 days or 6 months.
The Tombs and Rikers Island are not the friendly Mayberry jail that Otis the drunk slept it off in. You don't want to be there, especially for what would be considered pretty "dumb" by your peers.
So, you "punt" and learn to live without. You adapt. You get by. You don't think about it. Maybe 'cause you just don't know any better.
I spent many years in sales travelling by company car into some of the worst neighborhoods NYC had to offer. No gun. No knife. They are illegal to have on your person, in your briefcase, etc. No baseball bat. No tire knocker. They are illegal to have anywhere in the front seat area of your car OR in the back seat if it's within the immediate reach of the driver. Not much use in the locked trunk of the car, are they?
One of my buddies was shot point blank by someone in a passing car outside a restaurant where we were set up to do a show around 7:30PM. Fortunately, he was holding a contractor's clipboard, i.e. the aluminum one with the pocket for forms and it severely dented the clipboard and knocked it out of his hand but stopped short of hitting him. Might have been a .22 or .25 - lucky for him.
I myself have been in two localized street riots, one of which saw the participants jumpimg and dancing on top of my company car on Southern Boulevard in the South Bronx.
Another time, my company car was stolen in broad daylight in Fort Apache, the Bronx by a young kid who used a carpenter's claw hammer to break into the car and yank out the ignition switch cylinder.
One morning on Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, I happended to get out my car in the middle of a rooftop sniper attack from across the street. Luckily one of the guys I was going to see jumped out from behind a metal door and dragged me inside. I almost got hit by one of the responding cop cars driven along the sidewalk.
And life went on. It just didn't seem all that important at the time. And that is as honest as I can be about it. Call me stupid or whatever if you think it's warranted.
Why? I can only guess that the liberals truly believe that if they let the lawful, peaceful citizens carry ANY kind of weapons, then they will not be able to control themselves and will turn into violent, raging, manical killers.
Slowhand, It must really suck to live in NYC.
From the perspective of defending oneself with a knife or a gun, absolutely "yes". As being an ultra-liberal bastion in America, again "yes". However, it is a truly great city, never closes, has something for everyone and, sad to say, it remains the #1 target for terrorists.
I think all convetional weapons should be legal, and able to conceal carry without a permit. I am however suspicious of joining a knife group, especially since I believe a lot of them would stab the gun owners in the back. Same reason I don't belong to the NRA. NRA would gladly sell out the Class III lobby, and a knife lobby would probably even sell out the handgun lobby.
Funny one. On purpose?
Reason being that less of the public is as frightened by such equipment as they are frightened by guns. So as we get more and more rights to carry the above mentioned tools, and as that concept gets more and more acceptence by the general public, then maybe finally the basical concept of lawful, peaceful citizens going around armed would become widely accepted. When that happened I believe that then the idea of carrying guns would automatically be more easily accepted since the general right of carrying weapons had become accepted.
Turn on any news channel and you will hear of a shooting. What you don't always hear on that same given day in that same given area, is how many other serious crimes - that were reported - were committed WITHOUT weapons, specifically without guns. They can't report them all and so they pick out the ones that gives them the most "bang" for the buck - pun intended. Many serious crimes never even get reported.
The viewing/reading public is bombarded with reports of crimes committed with guns on a daily basis and so many folks are sensitized to the idea of carrying ANY kind of weapon. They do not hear of these gun or knife crimes in the context of a percentage of all the other crimes reported, let alone committed.
When reports of a bank robbery are aired, the viewer is conditioned to think of a guy with a gun saying "Give me all the money or I'll shoot!" Yet, we now have a whole cadre of bandits with power tools and forklifts ripping ATM's right out of bank walls. Then, there are those who hand the teller a note, threatening to set of a bomb and blow everyone up. And what about embezzlers? Are they not bank robbers too?
Good parenting tells us that if we tell a child that he or she is stupid enough times, that child will grow up to believe it and will most likely act accordingly. So it is with the media.
But still, it would be interesting to know what everybody thinks of the possibility of the knife groups selling out the gun owners.
As far as I'm concerned, if you want to carry a baton or a knife for protection, you should also implicitly be supporting the person who wants to carry a Micro-Uzi for protection.