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Mayor Ray Nagin, Once Again Found in Contempt

UsahogUsahog Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
City of New Orleans, Mayor Ray Nagin, Once Again Found in Contempt of Court
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1784411/posts

Posted on 02/13/2007 6:45:42 PM PST by Ellesu


District Court Judge to City Attorney: Conduct "wholly unprofessional" :

Fairfax, VA-The National Rifle Association (NRA) and law abiding gun owners have won yet another victory On February 13, 2007, against New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and former police chief Warren Riley.

Judge Carl J. Barbier, presiding over the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana, granted NRA's motion for contempt against New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Warren Riley for "failure to provide initial disclosures and to compel answers to discovery" during NRA's injunction against the City for their illegal gun confiscation of law abiding citizens following Hurricane Katrina in 2006.

"Once more, Mayor Ray Nagin and former police chief Warren Riley are held accountable for considering themselves above the law," said Chris W. Cox, NRA's chief lobbyist. "These men have had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, every step of the way in this process to return the lawfully owned firearms to their own citizens, and Judge Barbier rightly found them in contempt of court for their complete lack of respect for the rule of law."

Furthermore, Judge Barbier concluded the delaying tactics by the City's attorney, Joseph Vincent DiRosa, Jr, to be "wholly unprofessional and shall not be condoned". Mr. DiRosa admitted in Court that he had "no good reason" to explain his actions and has been ordered to pay partial legal fees to NRA's attorneys for their wasted time and money.

"Ray Nagin, Warren Riley and their attorney refused to provide vital information to the U.S. District Court for their unconstitutional acts in their city's time of great need," concluded Cox. "On behalf of the lawful gun owners of New Orleans, NRA is pleased with this outcome, we thank Judge Barbier for his swift decision and we will continue to press for the full return of all the city's confiscated firearms."

Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America's oldest civil rights and sportsmen's group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and to advocate enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation's leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the military.
___________________________________________________________________

Couldn't seem to find a link from any of the major news outlets? I didn't even see this on DrudgeReport.. which is very odd?

Hog

Comments

  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Typical liberal behavior. Don't respect the law, unless you agree with it.

    Kinda reminds me of Kalifornia voters supporting a ban against "gay marriage." They voted against it, but the self proclaimed "party of the people" tried to overturn the ban in the courts. Their support of the people's will is only valid when they agree with the decisions being made. Sad.
  • phideaux4886phideaux4886 Member Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of Stupid Transmitted Disease in New Orleans. The disease is contracted through ignorance coupled with dangerous and high-risk behavior.

    The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectem (pronounced gonna re-elect'em). Many victims have contracted it and keep passing it around year after year.

    The strain first appeared in early 2006. Mayor Nagin was returned to the mayor's office. The current strain surfaced again this past fall when William Jefferson won the runoff election.

    The Center for Disease Control issued a severe warning this past week that there is danger this strain of Stupid Transmitted Disease in New Orleans may be in the process of mutating and could infect the entire State of Louisiana by early fall - just in time for the Governor's election.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by phideaux4886
    The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of Stupid Transmitted Disease in New Orleans. The disease is contracted through ignorance coupled with dangerous and high-risk behavior.

    The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectem (pronounced gonna re-elect'em). Many victims have contracted it and keep passing it around year after year.

    The strain first appeared in early 2006. Mayor Nagin was returned to the mayor's office. The current strain surfaced again this past fall when William Jefferson won the runoff election.

    The Center for Disease Control issued a severe warning this past week that there is danger this strain of Stupid Transmitted Disease in New Orleans may be in the process of mutating and could infect the entire State of Louisiana by early fall - just in time for the Governor's election.




    Nice one.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    If we gunners were better able to present a united front to fight such crap, such crap would be much, much harder for them to pull off.

    Sadly, we are not united.
  • UsahogUsahog Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just seen on the news last night 17 Feb.
    That NO has had 26 murders since the beginning of the year? Umm we are a month and a half into the new year??? and there was talk about Mardi Gras etc..

    Sounds Like the Criminals like Nagin's tactics and are taking advantage of the situation.. The SOB should have these deaths/murders pinned on him for Negligence...

    Hog
  • Slow_HandSlow_Hand Member Posts: 2,835
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    If we gunners were better able to present a united front to fight such crap, such crap would be much, much harder for them to pull off.

    Sadly, we are not united.


    Good point.

    If the NRA numbers 4 million members in a country where nearly 100 million citizens voted in the last election (2004), then it begs the question "Why such a low membership?"

    I'm relatively new at owning and shooting handguns and I'm also a dues-paying member of the NRA. Ditto for my wife.

    IMO, they (NRA) have not done the best possible job of getting the message out to the non-member gun owners and gun enthusiasts of this nation. Perhaps fewer solicitous mailings to me and my wife and more to potential new members might be one good place to start.

    Not ragging on the NRA here, just thinking out of the box a bit.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Slow Hand, since you are already pro-gun enough to join a gun rights group, I suggest you check out the GOA (gunowners.org) and JPFO (jpfo.org) and consider joining one of them. My favorite group is GOA, and is the one I belong to.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't forget the Second Amendment Foundation. Alan Gottlieb is one badass on the gun rights front.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gunphreak, the reason I didn't mention SAF or CCRKBA (both with Alan Gottleib) is because of this quote from the SAF site (from http://saf.org/default.asp?p=gunrights_faq):

    quote:
    Many current laws are reasonable and un-controversial. However, many of them are being broken, with no consequence. We believe that stricter enforcement of existing laws would go much further in reducing gun-related crimes than simply passing new, un-enforceable laws.


    I don't believe that gun laws are reasonable or un-controversial. I don't believe that we should enforce the existing gun laws as they are unconstitutional. The groups that hold this mindset wouldn't be productive in rolling back laws.

    I don't support Gottleib's organizations for the same reason I don't support the NRA.

    If you have any information to refute this claim, please post it.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, smith, I can respect that, but is there any group that support the upheaval of all gun laws? If there is, then by all means, let me know.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In an email sent to me, the GOA says they want to repeal all gun laws. That's why it is the only organization I currently belong to.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    In an email sent to me, the GOA says they want to repeal all gun laws. That's why it is the only organization I currently belong to.


    You know I support the GOA. But if they publically take such a stand and announce such a goal, it is going to come back to bite them right in the *. Such a radical position(to the anti-gunners and to the undecided public) might cause such a back-lash that the GOA would not even be capable of more modest goals. Reason being that if they truly want to repeal all gun laws (I myself like such laws as saying a convicted violent felon cannot have a gun or ammo) then the must take it a piece at a time. One step at as time.

    When blacks first started pushing for their rights, they only asked for freedom and equality. If they had also demanded at that time, affirmative action, reparations, a right to marry white woman, a right to welfare, etc. I doubt they would have succeeded as well as they have today.

    When homosexuals first started demanding better treatment, not one of them asked for special laws protecting them nor did they ask for the right to be offically married to each other. They started out only asking for fair and equal treatment.

    American who really want our country to have an "open borders" policy don't tell you that is what they want. Instead they tell you about the poor, mistreated and hard working illegal immergrants who only want to work here.

    The GOA cannot lay out what most will consider a radical plan, a plan that has to have wide acceptance to work, and expect massive support. They have to take it one step at a time. Sadly, I still believe the NRA can be/is a better master at such political planning than the GOA is.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:When blacks first started pushing for their rights, they only asked for freedom and equality. If they had also demanded at that time, affirmative action, reparations, a right to marry white woman, a right to welfare, etc. I doubt they would have succeeded as well as they have today.

    When homosexuals first started demanding better treatment, not one of them asked for special laws protecting them nor did they ask for the right to be offically married to each other. They started out only asking for fair and equal treatment.
    These people mentioned never had any rights...they were breaking new ground.
    How abysmally stupid of a people given freedom by guns and men determined to break tyranny...FOREVER...Allowing tyranny to flourish yet again.
    Heart-breaking..when looked at logically, One has to resist the temptation to merely shut up and allow it to happen unfettered by a single word, even.

    That 3 % is entirely too important, however...the last hope to prevent a thousand years of darkness...and perhaps forever darkness.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    In an email sent to me, the GOA says they want to repeal all gun laws. That's why it is the only organization I currently belong to.


    You know I support the GOA. But if they publically take such a stand and announce such a goal, it is going to come back to bite them right in the *. Such a radical position(to the anti-gunners and to the undecided public) might cause such a back-lash that the GOA would not even be capable of more modest goals. Reason being that if they truly want to repeal all gun laws (I myself like such laws as saying a convicted violent felon cannot have a gun or ammo) then the must take it a piece at a time. One step at as time.

    When blacks first started pushing for their rights, they only asked for freedom and equality. If they had also demanded at that time, affirmative action, reparations, a right to marry white woman, a right to welfare, etc. I doubt they would have succeeded as well as they have today.

    When homosexuals first started demanding better treatment, not one of them asked for special laws protecting them nor did they ask for the right to be offically married to each other. They started out only asking for fair and equal treatment.

    American who really want our country to have an "open borders" policy don't tell you that is what they want. Instead they tell you about the poor, mistreated and hard working illegal immergrants who only want to work here.

    The GOA cannot lay out what most will consider a radical plan, a plan that has to have wide acceptance to work, and expect massive support. They have to take it one step at a time. Sadly, I still believe the NRA can be/is a better master at such political planning than the GOA is.




    I fully understand what you are saying. Gun owners couldn't possibly get a bill passed that simply says "all gun kontrol laws are illegal and unenforceable." Our rights were taken from us one law at a time, and so will they be restored, repealing one law at a time.

    However, I do tend to like the ideologically pure stance of the GOA, and that makes them my preferred group.

    Although, TR, I do respect what you are doing. Joining the NRA even if they give up too much, joining the GOA (or JPFO) even if they are too extreme for you, and joining the other groups like SAF or CCRKBA even if they don't quite live up to my ideology.

    I don't believe in compromising away our rights, but I can see your justification for supporting the groups that are too pro-gun or too compromising for you. While I probably won't be joining NRA anytime soon, I am seriously considering expanding on my GOA membership to include Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (even though I'm not in their state; they still need support), JPFO, and possibly Keep And Bear Arms. Maybe some others.

    Looks like your belief system might be rubbing off on me. [:0]
    Hope my belief system is somewhat rubbing off onto you. [:D]
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    I am seriously considering expanding on my GOA membership to include Rocky Mountain Gun Owners
    dsmith,
    There is another benefit from joining RMGO, besides their being a no compromise gun group. You "may" find it useful, may not. Email sent. [;)]
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    pickenup, you have email from me. [:)]
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    In an email sent to me, the GOA says they want to repeal all gun laws. That's why it is the only organization I currently belong to.


    You know I support the GOA. But if they publically take such a stand and announce such a goal, it is going to come back to bite them right in the *. Such a radical position(to the anti-gunners and to the undecided public) might cause such a back-lash that the GOA would not even be capable of more modest goals. Reason being that if they truly want to repeal all gun laws (I myself like such laws as saying a convicted violent felon cannot have a gun or ammo) then the must take it a piece at a time. One step at as time.

    When blacks first started pushing for their rights, they only asked for freedom and equality. If they had also demanded at that time, affirmative action, reparations, a right to marry white woman, a right to welfare, etc. I doubt they would have succeeded as well as they have today.

    When homosexuals first started demanding better treatment, not one of them asked for special laws protecting them nor did they ask for the right to be offically married to each other. They started out only asking for fair and equal treatment.

    American who really want our country to have an "open borders" policy don't tell you that is what they want. Instead they tell you about the poor, mistreated and hard working illegal immergrants who only want to work here.

    The GOA cannot lay out what most will consider a radical plan, a plan that has to have wide acceptance to work, and expect massive support. They have to take it one step at a time. Sadly, I still believe the NRA can be/is a better master at such political planning than the GOA is.




    I fully understand what you are saying. Gun owners couldn't possibly get a bill passed that simply says "all gun kontrol laws are illegal and unenforceable." Our rights were taken from us one law at a time, and so will they be restored, repealing one law at a time.

    However, I do tend to like the ideologically pure stance of the GOA, and that makes them my preferred group.

    Although, TR, I do respect what you are doing. Joining the NRA even if they give up too much, joining the GOA (or JPFO) even if they are too extreme for you, and joining the other groups like SAF or CCRKBA even if they don't quite live up to my ideology.

    I don't believe in compromising away our rights, but I can see your justification for supporting the groups that are too pro-gun or too compromising for you. While I probably won't be joining NRA anytime soon, I am seriously considering expanding on my GOA membership to include Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (even though I'm not in their state; they still need support), JPFO, and possibly Keep And Bear Arms. Maybe some others.

    Looks like your belief system might be rubbing off on me. [:0]
    Hope my belief system is somewhat rubbing off onto you. [:D]


    Oh, it is. And that "rubbing off" is greatly helped by your always kind, polite and friendly attitude.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    [:0] [:D]


    Well, yeah, I wasn't being sarcastic. And that compliment goes to you also (well, except for the times you have been nasty as hell to me)
  • WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't mean for this to become anothe bash TRFox thread, but I seriously disagree with your posting about the more moderate approach.

    The reason we have gay marriage and serious discussion about black reparations today is because we had the Black Panthers shooting cops and gays rioting in San Francisco 30 years ago.

    It wasn't the nice n' easy approach that advanced civil rights and gay rights, it was the outrageous behavior of the fringe radicals within those movements. They broke the ice, introduced those radical ideas to society 30 years ago that seem relatively tame today. They desensitized the youth of America to their ideas so that when they rose to power 30 years later these radical ideas would be considered normal to them. A beautiful example of incremental brainwashing if there ever was one.

    Fox, you know I respect you and consider you a brother in this fight. Two years ago I often backed you up, agreeing that we needed to follow the moderate path. But since then I have seen the Republicans drop the ball, the NRA stab us in the back, and the government seize arms from law abiding citizens in the midst of a regional disaster, leaving them to fend unarmed against the filth of society.

    I no longer agree with the moderate approach. Instead I support the "granite" approach. We must stand like a rock, entrenched in our beliefs. Let the flighty naysayers make fun of us, portray us as evil killers. But in the end the Truth will boil down to us! Our viewpoint is right. We are the righteous ones in this fight. Compromising our position only grants legitimacy to their false views. Let us stand like monoliths of granite, not decomposed granite like the NRA.

    -WoundedWolf
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I no longer agree with the moderate approach. Instead I support the "granite" approach. We must stand like a rock, entrenched in our beliefs. Let the flighty naysayers make fun of us, portray us as evil killers. But in the end the Truth will boil down to us! Our viewpoint is right. We are the righteous ones in this fight. Compromising our position only grants legitimacy to their false views. Let us stand like monoliths of granite, not decomposed granite like the NRA.

    -WoundedWolf
    Ooooh,My God..how I wish I had said that just like THAT...the only two words I would have changed is 'decomposed granite'..but then 'decomposed granite' COULD be quicksand, mightened it..???
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    pickenup, you have email from me. [:)]
    Nothing yet.......
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
    I don't mean for this to become anothe bash TRFox thread, but I seriously disagree with your posting about the more moderate approach.

    The reason we have gay marriage and serious discussion about black reparations today is because we had the Black Panthers shooting cops and gays rioting in San Francisco 30 years ago.

    It wasn't the nice n' easy approach that advanced civil rights and gay rights, it was the outrageous behavior of the fringe radicals within those movements. They broke the ice, introduced those radical ideas to society 30 years ago that seem relatively tame today. They desensitized the youth of America to their ideas so that when they rose to power 30 years later these radical ideas would be considered normal to them. A beautiful example of incremental brainwashing if there ever was one.

    Fox, you know I respect you and consider you a brother in this fight. Two years ago I often backed you up, agreeing that we needed to follow the moderate path. But since then I have seen the Republicans drop the ball, the NRA stab us in the back, and the government seize arms from law abiding citizens in the midst of a regional disaster, leaving them to fend unarmed against the filth of society.

    I no longer agree with the moderate approach. Instead I support the "granite" approach. We must stand like a rock, entrenched in our beliefs. Let the flighty naysayers make fun of us, portray us as evil killers. But in the end the Truth will boil down to us! Our viewpoint is right. We are the righteous ones in this fight. Compromising our position only grants legitimacy to their false views. Let us stand like monoliths of granite, not decomposed granite like the NRA.

    -WoundedWolf



    No other approach will work for gun rights. There is no other social issue that can actually be closely compared to fighting for gun rights. Getting loud and agressive about wanting our gun rights is about like some man getting kicked out of an apartment complex, club, restaurant, etc. for being complained about being loud and agressive. And when told he could not have the right to stay, he then does get loud and agressive about it. Thereby proving the case against him and now guaranteeing that he will be seen by everyone as being guilty of the charge of being loud and agressive. And now he wil lose his right to stay.

    Same with gun rights. Some people and legislators just don't want guns in the hands of us unreliable civilians. But most anti-gun or undecided people fear guns and some fear people who have guns.

    If we gunners get loud, agressive and demanding about our gun rights, then we will just have made the case against us for our opposition.
  • Wagon WheelWagon Wheel Member Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by tr fox: "If we gunners get loud, aggressive and demanding about our gun rights, then we will just have made the case against us for our opposition."

    With all due respect, I believe you to be INCREDABLY Wrong. The recent "incident" concerning Jim Zumbo should be proof enough that a loud, boisterous, aggressive and ORGANIZED frontal assault on the anti's can/will and does work. Apparently, the tactic hasn't been employed often enough. Maybe, with this victory, light has been shed on our real power if we stand united.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    pickenup, you have email from me. [:)]
    Nothing yet.......


    Sorry. Must not have worked. What my email said was that I no longer have access to the account I registered with. I'd like it if you would email the RMGO quote that you sent to me to the new email address in my profile. [:)]
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    I'd like it if you would email the RMGO quote that you sent to me to the new email address in my profile.
    Done.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    quote:Originally posted by dsmith
    I'd like it if you would email the RMGO quote that you sent to me to the new email address in my profile.
    Done.


    Cool. Thanks for the link.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Wagon Wheel
    Originally posted by tr fox: "If we gunners get loud, aggressive and demanding about our gun rights, then we will just have made the case against us for our opposition."

    With all due respect, I believe you to be INCREDABLY Wrong. The recent "incident" concerning Jim Zumbo should be proof enough that a loud, boisterous, aggressive and ORGANIZED frontal assault on the anti's can/will and does work. Apparently, the tactic hasn't been employed often enough. Maybe, with this victory, light has been shed on our real power if we stand united.


    thank you for disageeing with respect. There can be no comparsion between the Zumbo gun owner victory and saving/advancing gun rights among the general public and with legislators.

    The Zumbo fight took place entirely within the confines of the gun owning public, the gun/knife/hunting industry and the sports media that serves us. It was much like a fight within your own family. It was loud, boisterous, did not go unnoticed and caused immediate results. Much like some family fights.

    The gun/knife and associated media make millions off of us gunners. It should be no surprise that they listened to us. . That discription does not apply to the anti-gun crowd nor to the huge mass of citizens who are undecided on gun ownership.

    However, just try a family fight approach to disagreeing with your neighbor. That approach will rarely, if ever, be accepted by your neighbor and rather than making progress with your neighbor, you might make the situation worse.

    Like it or not, our gun rights are at some point going to finally be decided by the vast, general public who considers themselves middle-of-the-road. In most, perhaps all, attempts to save/advance our gun rights, we must address those 200 million+ citizens with respect, courtesy, along with our acting civilized, calm and responsible.

    Just as you would treat a judge when you are in his court room and he is trying your case. You dare not get loud, demanding and boisterous as we gunners did with Zumbo. We dare not loudly demand all gun laws be outlawed overnight or that each and every gun owners should be able to purchase a machine gun.

    To do otherwise is just to lose our case for our side.
  • Wagon WheelWagon Wheel Member Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Again, I respect your opinion, however I must again disagree with several of your points:

    tr:The Zumbo fight took place entirely within the confines of the gun owning public,

    ww:(Are we now segregated into a certain group?)

    tr: the gun/knife/hunting industry and the sports media that serves us.

    ww:(and depends upon us for their financial survival)

    tr: It was much like a fight within your own family.

    ww:(Your analogy of a family fight won't hold water.)

    tr It was loud, boisterous, did not go unnoticed and caused immediate results. Much like some family fights.

    ww: Again: Fight fire with fire. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. A lot of the responses were not even from gun owners.

    tr: However, just try a family fight approach to disagreeing with your neighbor. That approach will rarely, if ever, be accepted by your neighbor and rather than making progress with your neighbor, you might make the situation worse.

    ww: What if your neighbor agrees with you. Build a fence or, take it down?

    tr: Like it or not, our gun rights are at some point going to finally be decided by the vast, general public who considers themselves middle-of-the-road. In most, perhaps all, attempts to save/advance our gun rights, we must address those 200 million+ citizens with respect, courtesy, along with our acting civilized, calm and responsible.

    ww: Once and for all, we need to inform and educate the 300 million+ citizens (where have you been?) what the 2nd Amendment really means, in no uncertain terms. AND educate them to the consequences of "Gun Control" bills upon their very EXISTANCE.

    tr: Just as you would treat a judge when you are in his court room and he is trying your case. You dare not get loud, demanding and boisterous as we gunners did with Zumbo. We dare not loudly demand all gun laws be outlawed overnight or that each and every gun owners should be able to purchase a machine gun.

    ww: If you don't ask (OR DEMAND), do you think they will repeal all of these gun laws "JUST BECAUSE". "Heh, We realize they ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL." GET FRIGGING REAL. tr fox: MOVE INTO THE 21st Century Of Gun Control Politics!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    tr: To do otherwise is just to lose our case for our side.

    ww: "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK" AND "THE MEAK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH". How About "Sell Your Cloak and Buy A Sword"?
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Wagon Wheel
    Again, I respect your opinion, however I must again disagree with several of your points:

    tr:The Zumbo fight took place entirely within the confines of the gun owning public,

    ww:(Are we now segregated into a certain group?)

    tr: the gun/knife/hunting industry and the sports media that serves us.

    ww:(and depends upon us for their financial survival)

    tr: It was much like a fight within your own family.

    ww:(Your analogy of a family fight won't hold water.)

    tr It was loud, boisterous, did not go unnoticed and caused immediate results. Much like some family fights.

    ww: Again: Fight fire with fire. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. A lot of the responses were not even from gun owners.

    tr: However, just try a family fight approach to disagreeing with your neighbor. That approach will rarely, if ever, be accepted by your neighbor and rather than making progress with your neighbor, you might make the situation worse.

    ww: What if your neighbor agrees with you. Build a fence or, take it down?

    tr: Like it or not, our gun rights are at some point going to finally be decided by the vast, general public who considers themselves middle-of-the-road. In most, perhaps all, attempts to save/advance our gun rights, we must address those 200 million+ citizens with respect, courtesy, along with our acting civilized, calm and responsible.

    ww: Once and for all, we need to inform and educate the 300 million+ citizens (where have you been?) what the 2nd Amendment really means, in no uncertain terms. AND educate them to the consequences of "Gun Control" bills upon their very EXISTANCE.

    tr: Just as you would treat a judge when you are in his court room and he is trying your case. You dare not get loud, demanding and boisterous as we gunners did with Zumbo. We dare not loudly demand all gun laws be outlawed overnight or that each and every gun owners should be able to purchase a machine gun.

    ww: If you don't ask (OR DEMAND), do you think they will repeal all of these gun laws "JUST BECAUSE". "Heh, We realize they ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL." GET FRIGGING REAL. tr fox: MOVE INTO THE 21st Century Of Gun Control Politics!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    tr: To do otherwise is just to lose our case for our side.

    ww: "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK" AND "THE MEAK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH". How About "Sell Your Cloak and Buy A Sword"?



    In green above. I have "been" right here. That is why I feel that about 100 million of our citizens will never agree with us gun owners. Thus my 200 million figure. Thanks for checking my math for me. Regardless of how many times you wave the constitution in their faces or how many times you inform them of your (and my) right to own guns, if you don't "sell" your message it will not be purchased.

    But go ahead and have it your way. At some point one of us will get a wakeup call. You could run a little experiment and go out among the general public (football/basketball/etc. game attendees, rock concert, etc) and get loud and proud and demand that the American public agree with whatever gun rights you care to demand. See what happens to the message you deliver to that group of citizens and let me know.
  • Wagon WheelWagon Wheel Member Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tr fox wrote ; But go ahead and have it your way. At some point one of us will get a wakeup call. You could run a little experiment and go out among the general public (football/basketball/etc. game attendees, rock concert, etc) and get loud and proud and demand that the American public agree with whatever gun rights you care to demand. See what happens to the message you deliver to that group of citizens and let me know.

    WW: Still trying to be respectful: (getting harder). The math aside,(Maybe your counting illegals and have better info.) your suggestion is as ludicrous as your idealism. Personally, I have a little bit more sense. If I wanted to get my message across to someone, it is in my best interest to pick the appropriate venue as well as the most appropriate moment. Knee jerk reactionism is a sickness that results from too much exposure to liberals/liberalism. Tell me you don't live in that fantasy world called Hollywood? Emotion over intellect. Do you get my drift?

    Think, and then speak. Not speak, and then think. Historically men are remembered more for their words than their deeds. If I put it to print/post, it will be here forever. Will your thoughts/concerns/suggestions stand the test of time? Have you made some kind of positive influence in the course of history? Or even just on this forum?

    We all hope we can or wish we could. It just takes...........
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Wagon Wheel
    Tr fox wrote ; But go ahead and have it your way. At some point one of us will get a wakeup call. You could run a little experiment and go out among the general public (football/basketball/etc. game attendees, rock concert, etc) and get loud and proud and demand that the American public agree with whatever gun rights you care to demand. See what happens to the message you deliver to that group of citizens and let me know.

    WW: Still trying to be respectful: (getting harder). The math aside,(Maybe your counting illegals and have better info.) your suggestion is as ludicrous as your idealism. Personally, I have a little bit more sense. If I wanted to get my message across to someone, it is in my best interest to pick the appropriate venue as well as the most appropriate moment. Knee jerk reactionism is a sickness that results from too much exposure to liberals/liberalism. Tell me you don't live in that fantasy world called Hollywood? Emotion over intellect. Do you get my drift?

    Think, and then speak. Not speak, and then think. Historically men are remembered more for their words than their deeds. If I put it to print/post, it will be here forever. Will your thoughts/concerns/suggestions stand the test of time? Have you made some kind of positive influence in the course of history? Or even just on this forum?

    We all hope we can or wish we could. It just takes...........


    Yes, the "respectful" part is getting harder. How about we call time out on this and after you have moved about in public for a few more years, while I assume putting your thoughts, ideas and ideals into practice, come back and we can compare notes.
  • Wagon WheelWagon Wheel Member Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    
    Yes, the "respectful" part is getting harder. How about we call time out on this and after you have moved about in public for a few more years, while I assume putting your thoughts, ideas and ideals into practice, come back and we can compare notes. quote:

    I've already got the time and the miles. Guess we're just two old geezer's with different opinions and too old to change em'. Sorry for venting my frustration with the Hollywood types on you. You have the right to express and I still respect you for your opinions even though I don't agree.

    Timeout. [:)]
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We still have the best people of any forum.
    Even if we don't always agree. [:D][:D][:D]
  • Wagon WheelWagon Wheel Member Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:We still have the best people of any forum.
    Even if we don't always agree.

    And Here I agree 100%.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Wagon Wheel
    
    Yes, the "respectful" part is getting harder. How about we call time out on this and after you have moved about in public for a few more years, while I assume putting your thoughts, ideas and ideals into practice, come back and we can compare notes. quote:

    I've already got the time and the miles. Guess we're just two old geezer's with different opinions and too old to change em'. Sorry for venting my frustration with the Hollywood types on you. You have the right to express and I still respect you for your opinions even though I don't agree.

    Timeout. [:)]

    Couldn't have been said better.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Oh, yessss;
    Give me a rousing discussion with men that think about things ANY day..men that FEEL freedom...instead of mouthing words that never reach the guts....
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