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Is the NRA doing its job ?
nyforester
Member Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
My dues are all paid up and I even gave a little more ca-ching this year. Tell your family and friends to join. I have not found any other group as active in gun rights yet. If you know of any, please add them here.
Abort Cuomo
Comments
I am very particular about the organizations I join. Mainly because I oppose the extreme price full autos have reached, and I don't want to join a group that supports such extreme restrictions on full autos.
My dues are all paid up and I even gave a little more ca-ching this year. Tell your family and friends to join. I have not found any other group as active in gun rights yet. If you know of any, please add them here.
I think the title of your post is a bit redundant. Of coarse they are not doing the job, we the people, want. They are however, doing the job the NRA wants. I gave up being a member of the NoRiflesAllowed a few years back when they filed suit to register handguns in D.C.I asked the NRA why they were pulling such a stupid move, their reply was"Our lawyers are very good, and they know what they are doing". My reply was "A right is a right and having to comprimise to have a right, makes it no real right at all, please cancel my membership immediately." Their response was to do just that, cancel my membership, not sending dues remainng or the magazine. Yeah sure, its about members, not money. When pigs fly maybe. The NRA needs people like you for sure.
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
My dues are all paid up and I even gave a little more ca-ching this year. Tell your family and friends to join. I have not found any other group as active in gun rights yet. If you know of any, please add them here.
I think the title of your post is a bit redundant. Of coarse they are not doing the job, we the people, want. They are however, doing the job the NRA wants. I gave up being a member of the NoRiflesAllowed a few years back when they filed suit to register handguns in D.C.I asked the NRA why they were pulling such a stupid move, their reply was"Our lawyers are very good, and they know what they are doing". My reply was "A right is a right and having to comprimise to have a right, makes it no real right at all, please cancel my membership immediately." Their response was to do just that, cancel my membership, not sending dues remainng or the magazine. Yeah sure, its about members, not money. When pigs fly maybe. The NRA needs people like you for sure.
To Freemind
I have a full time job running a company and a family. I don't have time to go to Washington DC and fight for my gun rights. I have to leave it to someone else. I do support the NRA anyway I can. I am not the guy doing nothing but then complaining when they come to get our guns ! It sounds like you are ! If you have it figured out, why don't you take the bull by the horns and start a rally.........oh, you probably have a life also. By the way, your name should be selfishmind !
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
My dues are all paid up and I even gave a little more ca-ching this year. Tell your family and friends to join. I have not found any other group as active in gun rights yet. If you know of any, please add them here.
I think the title of your post is a bit redundant. Of coarse they are not doing the job, we the people, want. They are however, doing the job the NRA wants. I gave up being a member of the NoRiflesAllowed a few years back when they filed suit to register handguns in D.C.I asked the NRA why they were pulling such a stupid move, their reply was"Our lawyers are very good, and they know what they are doing". My reply was "A right is a right and having to comprimise to have a right, makes it no real right at all, please cancel my membership immediately." Their response was to do just that, cancel my membership, not sending dues remainng or the magazine. Yeah sure, its about members, not money. When pigs fly maybe. The NRA needs people like you for sure.
I believe you are missing a very important element regarding the action of the NRA as you have described it. The Washington, D.C. city government actually played a very dirty trick on handgun owners of that city. I believe that what happened was the city government declared that in order to possess a handgun after a certain date, that handgun had to be registered with the city. The dirty trick the city pulled was that the city refused to register any handgun after a certain date. Thereby instituting a backdoor handgun ban. If what you describe is correct about the NRA, at least the NRA was trying to get the city to restart the registration process and thereby force the city to once again allow the residents to possess handguns. And at the same time the NRA was trying to expose the dirty trick the city had pulled by requiring the registration of handguns in order to possess those handguns but at the same time time the city refused to register those handguns.
So, if all you said and I have said is true, then the NRA was actually trying to do a good deed and not an evil deed as you describe.
I wish everyone would try and remember that in the world of politics, things are not always as they seem.
JMHO
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
My dues are all paid up and I even gave a little more ca-ching this year. Tell your family and friends to join. I have not found any other group as active in gun rights yet. If you know of any, please add them here.
I think the title of your post is a bit redundant. Of coarse they are not doing the job, we the people, want. They are however, doing the job the NRA wants. I gave up being a member of the NoRiflesAllowed a few years back when they filed suit to register handguns in D.C.I asked the NRA why they were pulling such a stupid move, their reply was"Our lawyers are very good, and they know what they are doing". My reply was "A right is a right and having to comprimise to have a right, makes it no real right at all, please cancel my membership immediately." Their response was to do just that, cancel my membership, not sending dues remainng or the magazine. Yeah sure, its about members, not money. When pigs fly maybe. The NRA needs people like you for sure.
I believe you are missing a very important element regarding the action of the NRA as you have described it. The Washington, D.C. city government actually played a very dirty trick on handgun owners of that city. I believe that what happened was the city government declared that in order to possess a handgun after a certain date, that handgun had to be registered with the city. The dirty trick the city pulled was that the city refused to register any handgun after a certain date. Thereby instituting a backdoor handgun ban. If what you describe is correct about the NRA, at least the NRA was trying to get the city to restart the registration process and thereby force the city to once again allow the residents to possess handguns. And at the same time the NRA was trying to expose the dirty trick the city had pulled by requiring the registration of handguns in order to possess those handguns but at the same time time the city refused to register those handguns.
So, if all you said and I have said is true, then the NRA was actually trying to do a good deed and not an evil deed as you describe.
I wish everyone would try and remember that in the world of politics, things are not always as they seem.
JMHO
No one in DC should have to register their guns... it violates the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments, not to mention the 14th, which disallows states from enacting laws against the Bill of Rights. But DC isn't a state, you say? So what. They fall under no state jurisdiction, so they are, by default, a gov't owned territory, which must obey the same laws of the land.... too bad, kommies!!!
And of course the success here would be that the D.C. residents could once again start registering their handguns and thereby once again POSSESS their handguns. The success here would also be that the NRA law suit requiring the city of D.C. to restart registering D.C. handguns so that the residents could again have their handguns would also reveal the D.C. city government as the sneaky, lying hypocrits that they are by doing their backdoor handgun banning.
To me the above can be considered at least a small measure of success if it were to suceed. And for those here who want all or nothing in the gun rights war, please note that the above can be considered only one small battle and we can still continue fighting and trying to win the larger gun rights war.
Look, if you guys want to pay dues to an organization, so be it. The constitution is ever so clear as to our right to bear arms. I don't see any organizations fighting for your right to breath, which is also a right not mentioned specifically in the bill of rights. However we don't need an organization to "protect" that RIGHT do we?
You don't seem to get it at all. Over the decades we have lost COUNTLESS gun rights. Some of the loss was caused by powerful politicians. Other loses were caused by organized anti-gun groups that lobbied those powerful politicians into passing laws/restrictions that caused us to lose our gun rights. If you can understand that, then you can understand that we gunners have no choice but to spend time, money and effort to try and counter the tactics I just mentioned. One way to do that is to pool our political clout, money, time, etc. in order to try and resist the anti-gun politicians/organizations.
If you are a gun owner and don't understand this then either you are too young to have been helping with the gun rights war or you have just been a free rider in that war. No body likes the situation I have described and in a fair world we would, as you posted, not have to behave in such a manner. Unfortunetly, if you haven't noticed yet, it is not a fair world.
In regards to your comparing the right of breathing to the right of owning guns. EVERY BODY breaths and is happy to do so. The great majority of American citizens are in favor of that and in favor of you yourself continuing to breath. The opposite is true of gun rights.
While I am not discouraging you to support the NRA , don't tall me I should to keep my rights. All those laws on the books (20,000+) and have they got them cut in half? Nope. They win far fewer than they lose.The NRA is not going to save your rights. I am not a young pup, and have seen the erosion of rights for years. I have also seen many abuses for quite some time. I know the only thing that will restore rights is a revolution . I don't care if you agree, but that is the FACT. The NRA would be a better organization IMO, if it was straight forward and steadfast in its' beliefs. I don't like sneaky lawyers pulling the same moves they accuse government of doing.
If you don't like my opinion Fox, that is ok with me. It makes no difference in my life. I have my gun rights because of the constitution, not because of any organization. I will keep my rights or die trying. I have never given any politician permission to "bargin" my rights, and I never will. It is a good thing the Founders didn't take the attitude" I don't have the time" to perserve our God given rights. All would have been lost if they had. Our rights are our OWN responsibility, not that of lawyers. Remember, the socialists want someone else to take care of you, not yourself. If you bring yourself to relying on someone else to take care of you, you are at their mercy. I would rather make the decisions for myself, and answer to myself, not be the one pointing fingers.
The problem is we are not dealing with honest people willing to play in accordance with the rules. These are very smart lawyers that twist and spin the truth and stonewall the history and facts surrounding the second amendment.
I am sure you know that the NRA is a very small organization of only 3-4 million menbers. With that small support they only fight retreating, flanking actions to try to protect our gun rights. They have a handfull of lawyers up against hunderds of lawyers in the Congress of the US, the state legislatures and the local District Attorneys and prosecutors in most of our larger cities.
We on the other hand are a huge group, 70-80 million gun owners in this great land. We have the power to change things in the palm of our hands but have not figured it out yet! If somehow, somehow we could link up and bring to bear the legions of guns owners, hunters, collectors, target shooters, mfgs, job shops and others we could make a major change in this current trend.
The NRA is by far the largest group of gun owners in one organization, again 3-4 million members. Even with that small number a lot of congressmen listen to them.
But......If 50-70 million members jumped in to the NRA in a short time frame, it would be the biggest news on all the media outlets that this country has seen for a long time. All the Congressmen and other politicials would immediately become aware of this massive shift power and would fall all over themselves to back the NRA agenda. The ones who did not make the change would be out of office at the next election.
This is a big picture view and we must all put aside our personal issues to join up for the greater good to save our rights. Otherwise they will be gone after eight years of this Congress and its helper bees in the major cities.
Let the NRA do it because most gun owners work and aren't going to drop everything and head off to Washington DC to participate in a big pro-gun protest! As individuals we stand divided but as one group we are very powerfull!
If you have a better way to attack this problem I am ready to listen.
I could not agree with you more. This was the original intent of my tread. I am just not good with words I guess.
If we sportsmen could join forces there is nothing we could not do.
It only cost $35 a year to be a member of the NRA
Owning a gun and not being a member of the NRA is like driving your car without auto insurance.
Here is a link directly to the web site http://www.nra.com/
To all Non members - take a minute and give it a look.
Thanks,
Pete
They are much more pro-gun than the NRA, and don't support the laws against full autos, etc. that the NRA supports.
I am a proud member of GOA, but I cancelled my NRA membership when I found out about their LONG history of supporting gun control.
So don't accuse me of doing nothing. I support GOA and their no-compromise attitude, and I do what I can to "convert" people into being pro-gun; wheter that includes taking them shooting, or just explaining to them what it is REALLY all about. It is REALLY all about not letting the government have too much power over the people. Nothing else.
It really is a matter of the members of Congress seeing that the Gun Rights Groups are attracting unusual amounts of membership in opposition to their onslaught of legislation against our second amendment rights.
Its important that we be heard, there are many good local and state groups that will support gun rights. But.......the but is this. The NRA has the big advantage at this point and I can assure you if they had the membership in the 50+million range their would be no more compromise. No More Compromise When we give them the power to take back control!!!
Look at the people on their Board of Directors. Tom Selleck, Ted Nudgent, Ron Paul and many many other powerfull pro-gun women and others.
I am just happy that you belong to a group that prides themselves in the protection of our firearms and that you try to educate the people. I do the same all the time.
I can't believe the people I meet that own guns, but do nothing and don't care about preserving their rights.
I will look into that group as I know nothing about them.
Pete
If you have a better way to attack this problem I am ready to listen.
sig,
Substitute GOA for NRA in your post, and I'd be 100% behind you.
The NRA has "compromised" TOO many of our rights away, to be on the top of my list.
While the GOA isn't as well known as the NRA, they ARE growing, and becoming a force to be reckoned with. Their name comes up in conversations on capital hill more frequently. Give THEM 50+ million members, and watch the change.
Pete,
Please DO look into that group.
We need to get together and fight for what is ours so that our children's children don't have to !
quote:Originally posted by sig232
If you have a better way to attack this problem I am ready to listen.
sig,
Substitute GOA for NRA in your post, and I'd be 100% behind you.
The NRA has "compromised" TOO many of our rights away, to be on the top of my list.
While the GOA isn't as well known as the NRA, they ARE growing, and becoming a force to be reckoned with. Their name comes up in conversations on capital hill more frequently. Give THEM 50+ million members, and watch the change.
Pete,
Please DO look into that group.
You know my feelings about this issue! I agree, if GOA is your organization, and I know they are a no compromise group, then join up and make them the 50+ million elephant in the living room.
I truely believe that Congress has its ear to the ground and if NRA or GOA suddenly take on a huge group of new members the sh...t will hit the fan! Plus NRA and GOA will link together if they have a strong following as partners on many issues and that could result in a major change in how things get handled in Congress.
Please push your friends and others to Join GOA! We need this to happen within the next two years to block the wave of legislation that is coming!
Fox,
While I am not discouraging you to support the NRA , don't tall me I should to keep my rights. All those laws on the books (20,000+) and have they got them cut in half? Nope. They win far fewer than they lose.The NRA is not going to save your rights. I am not a young pup, and have seen the erosion of rights for years. I have also seen many abuses for quite some time. I know the only thing that will restore rights is a revolution . I don't care if you agree, but that is the FACT. The NRA would be a better organization IMO, if it was straight forward and steadfast in its' beliefs. I don't like sneaky lawyers pulling the same moves they accuse government of doing.
If you don't like my opinion Fox, that is ok with me. It makes no difference in my life. I have my gun rights because of the constitution, not because of any organization. I will keep my rights or die trying. I have never given any politician permission to "bargin" my rights, and I never will. It is a good thing the Founders didn't take the attitude" I don't have the time" to perserve our God given rights. All would have been lost if they had. Our rights are our OWN responsibility, not that of lawyers. Remember, the socialists want someone else to take care of you, not yourself. If you bring yourself to relying on someone else to take care of you, you are at their mercy. I would rather make the decisions for myself, and answer to myself, not be the one pointing fingers.
Divide and conquer is a old military axiom.
When you are as alone as you leave yourself and they bust your door in at 4:00AM and stick the MP-5 in your nose are you going to pee the bed? How can you alone stop it? How can you alone fight back and win?
Who is out there to help you? Who has the money, organization and the voice to fight for Freemind. The NRA, GOA and others do. They have our money to help. I send money to help folks in those situations.
Alone is a terrible place to be in a storm and a guaranteed fast death in a war.
Don't kid yourself that NRA or GOA will be there when your door is kicked in at 4am. Nor will they be there with their high-dollar lawyers when the gavel seals your fate.
There were two members OF THIS FORUM that experienced that fate first hand. One has spent a year in the slammer and may have finally been released (the details are yet unclear). I personally contacted EVERY gun rights organization and advocate I could think of to plead his case. Out of all of them, the only response I received was from Ted Nugent's e-mail screener who said he would "pass it along".
Oh... and the other member of this forum who experienced the same, he DIED in prison.
Don't get me wrong, I still pay my money to NRA and GOA, but I am no fool. I know they will not be there for me when I need them. If I do end up with the same fate as these others, then maybe I can haunt the memories of Chuck Heston, Sandy Froman, and Wayne LaPierre. Perhaps they have a conscience somewhere... but probably not.
+1 WW . I see these organizations as any other "business". I am not sying the people that work there are anti-gun, however actions speak louder than words. My saftey was built into the bill of rights. I don't have to pay an organization to protect my right to speach, religion,search and seizure, or jury of my peers.
You have a whole lot to learn about life. But just for discussions sake, if you won't join/support/pay any pro-gun organizations to fight for your gun rights, or ANY organizations to fight for other rights, just what will/do you do to fight for your rights?
You surely don't believe that such rights simply fall out of the sky and are yours just for picking them up? Or that you deserve and will have your rights forever simply because you are you?
Or do you?
You surely don't believe that such rights simply fall out of the sky and are yours just for picking them up? Or that you deserve and will have your rights forever simply because you are you?
Or do you?
Fell from the sky? No. Granted by the founders, YES. Has the NRA been in business since 1776? How about the ACLU? Name me ONE organization that has been in business since 1776 that is in place to fight for our rights? The answer is there is NOT ANY! What does that very fact tell you? There is no real need for them. Those "businesses" exist to make money from other peoples lack of desire/motivation to stand up for what is theirs. As I said before, IF you want to support the NRA, it's you CHOICE. That choice does NOT come with gaurentees! Our bill of rights IS a gaurentee. And did you know that the bill of rights has no monutary membership fees?But in all fairness to keep the gaurentee you have to be willing to keep it. Sometimes that means doing things you do desire NOT to do. That requires actions that some cannot bear.
Fox , while I don't dislike you, I dislike te NRA propiganda by the boatloads. You want to think me a fool? Thats your choice. The tories thought the founders were fools too. I however, do NOT. The sacrifice of the greater good does not come from the onlookers. The greater good is not served by back alley treaties, nor by comprimise.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
You surely don't believe that such rights simply fall out of the sky and are yours just for picking them up? Or that you deserve and will have your rights forever simply because you are you?
Or do you?
Fell from the sky? No. Granted by the founders, YES. Has the NRA been in business since 1776? How about the ACLU? Name me ONE organization that has been in business since 1776 that is in place to fight for our rights? The answer is there is NOT ANY! What does that very fact tell you? There is no real need for them. Those "businesses" exist to make money from other peoples lack of desire/motivation to stand up for what is theirs. As I said before, IF you want to support the NRA, it's you CHOICE. That choice does NOT come with gaurentees! Our bill of rights IS a gaurentee. And did you know that the bill of rights has no monutary membership fees?But in all fairness to keep the gaurentee you have to be willing to keep it. Sometimes that means doing things you do desire NOT to do. That requires actions that some cannot bear.
Fox , while I don't dislike you, I dislike te NRA propiganda by the boatloads. You want to think me a fool? Thats your choice. The tories thought the founders were fools too. I however, do NOT. The sacrifice of the greater good does not come from the onlookers. The greater good is not served by back alley treaties, nor by comprimise.
OK, but you didn't respond to the part where I asked you what you WILL do to try and hold onto your rights. Other than to go around being you.
OK, but you didn't respond to the part where I asked you what you WILL do to try and hold onto your rights. Other than to go around being you.
Have you read my posts? You should know by now what I will do to keep my rights. From MY cold dead hands! I told you before I won't pay money to keep what I allready own by god and the founders. Whatever the future has planned for me, I accept that. I won't run and hide from my responsibilities. I will not take the path of least resistance because it is easier, I will take the path of rightiousness(or moral correctness). No matter the obsticales, I will overcome or dye trying. I made the concious choice some time ago that there is right and wrong in this world. I will follow the choice of right even though it may be a tougher road to follow. I see the founder had much honor in their moral character, and I desire to follow their example. I WILL follow their examples.
Don't fret fox, I respect you and MOST everyone I meet. I just may not agree with mst people's moral compass. That alone doesn't mean I wish them ill, I just won't allow their bad judgement to destroy MY liberties. [:)]
Well, OK then. Apparently you will be there for us when the shooting starts. But it wouldn't take much effort and only a few dollars for you to be there now for us to help with the ongoing non-shooting war.
As I allrady said, IF you want to support them, that is your choice. I however, will not.I see no REAL solutions in their actions. Their paychecks don't get smaller when they lose ground does it? They simply don't have an "all or nothing" attitude that is desperately important to this fight. Their propaganda keeps their paychecks coming and THAT is their #1 goal.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well, OK then. Apparently you will be there for us when the shooting starts. But it wouldn't take much effort and only a few dollars for you to be there now for us to help with the ongoing non-shooting war.
As I allrady said, IF you want to support them, that is your choice. I however, will not.I see no REAL solutions in their actions. Their paychecks don't get smaller when they lose ground does it? They simply don't have an "all or nothing" attitude that is desperately important to this fight. Their propaganda keeps their paychecks coming and THAT is their #1 goal.
The NRA and GOA have won many more battles for us than they have lost. They are small and cannot be in every city, county, state and government office. All I hear is the negiative spin, no recognition of all the wonderfull things that gun groups have managed to accomplish over the years. I suspect you are not taking the time to check their website or read their mags. I don't see many of their court successes listed in our forums although I may have missed them.
The recent win with the city of New Orlean forcing them to give guns back was a big one and the blocking of the city of San Francisco from outlawing all guns was another.
I guess standing on the second amendment was a big help to Randy Weaver when he took his stand against all the federal agencies. You will encounter the same result with your bold stand!
Fight with us in the courts now or fight by yourself in the hills later.[:0][:0]
quote:Fight with us in the courts now or fight by yourself in the hills later.
Quite obviously YOU won't be there.
Also...where are you and your precious NRA 'fighting in the Courts'...the most outstanding case in 7 DECADES nearly torpedoed by the NRA...pis+++ third tier cases are really meaningless...and bleed money away from, say..the Parker case...
I don't like ANY PART of your and the NRA's agenda. I see the steady decline of gun rights here in America.
Good enough for you...since you do not recognise the Second Amendment as anything but toilet paper...
The recent win with the city of New Orlean forcing them to give guns back was a big one and the blocking of the city of San Francisco from outlawing all guns was another.
i am sorry, could you please elaborate a little how those were wins? allowing those things to happen was a bigger loss, as far as i can see.
Personally I would rather fight "in the hills". Once you make a firm stand and let loose a little of their blood, tends to change the anti zelots way of thinking.
doesn't. maybe it suppresses it, shuts them up, but definitely doesn't change their way of thinking. it's virtually impossible to change someone's way of thinking -- it's all up to them to do it. what i agree with is that there're people like pelosi, soros, strong, feinstein -- just to name a few -- whose thinking not only can't be change but must be eliminated. and unfortunately there're a lot more poor schmucks in this country who bought into their bs.