In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
What would it take to get back lost gun rights?
Mk23
Member Posts: 127 ✭✭
Any thoughts?
Comments
This is not a simple proposition, since support of and/or at least the acceptance of the governments authority to regulate (read infringe) on the RTKBA is institutionalized. Anyone espousing constitutional governance, particularly relative to Amendment II, is widely considered a Kook, or a dangerous radical.
This poses a major obstacle in regaining lost constitutional liberties. The truth is, that most in America would be afraid to step back and live in an age of "rugged individualism" and personal freedoms, particularly when the large, leaky mammary of the government would go dry.
The approach would need to be undertaken with courage and deliberation in stages. A number of steps would have to occur to succeed. Among those steps:
*The first step would have to be to elect a President who could use the "bully pulpit" to extol the virtues and the requirements of America following the supreme law of the land, namely the US Constitution.
*It would take a breaking of the two party system of enslavement that we currently are yoked with.
*It would take rooting out the various and sundry weasels, crooks and scoundrels from government, federal and state and then electing constitution following people and in holding them strictly accountable. Without this, no real progress can be made overall.
*It would take the abolishment of the Dept. of Education and a return to absolute control for local communities as it was intended. This would be required, so that constitutional education, self-reliance, basic knowledge and the appropriate role of American Government could be reintroduced to our children. It is amazing to me that instead of focusing and championing the very things that made America a free and great nation, our government, through the Education Department, is systematically squashing every reference to such knowledge. This in and of itself should tell anyone with a brain that there is an insidious plot afoot to destroy America as we have known it and to replace it with a generic member of the "World Community". At the same time the crazy, multi-cultural, political correctness, social experimental crap being taught in our schools could be stopped immediately.
*It would take the understanding that American Culture is a unique and precious thing and that we MUST stop diluting it through mass legal and illegal immigration. Any immigration that is needed (and that is precious little) should be undertaken in a systematic and deliberate manner, by assessing the REAL needs that America has and then and only then, selecting people who would be of benefit to America. We have to stop turning America into a third world nation, comprised of tens of millions who have ZERO concept of and allegiance to our way of life and our form of government. Masses of the new immigrants are completely in-line with government largess and they VOTE. This uncontrolled "self-suicide" MUST stop.
*It would take the impeachment of judges and others who deliberately act contrary to their oath to support and defend the Constitution of the U.S..
*It would take the appointment and retention of ONLY those judges who act withing the constitution and the impeachment of those who attempt to legislate from the bench.
*It would take the courage, bravery and fortitude to absolutely confront EVERY government violation of the Bill of Rights.
*It would take a massive challenge and confrontation with the national media and the development of a means to counter in a direct, educated, but hard-assed manner, every myth, lie, misrepresentation, false reporting etc, of any government action that was against the constitutional restraints placed upon them by the US Constitution's Bill of Rights.
*It would take hardy American Citizens to step up and freely exercise their rights and for these same citizens to confront each and every infringement of a basic individual liberty.
*It would take an abolishment of the BATFE and a number of other Fed agencies who swarm among the populace and "eat out our sustenance", just as the founders warned and fought against.
*It would take the acknowledgment that free Americans have a duty and a responsibility to act in their own and fellow citizens defense. Coupled with this is the fact that the government is not authorized to protect each of us from all danger and harm. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. This is the price you pay to live in a free society.
*It would take a restructuring of our criminal justice system to take swift and SURE action for the aforementioned bad acts to good people. This mindset of punishing bad acts as opposed to regulating inanimate objects MUST be promoted, adopted and followed consistently.
I could go on, but you get the picture.
Bottom line, we are so far gone that I fear we are beyond returning to our roots. The problem is so wide-spread and insidious, that it would take all these things and more to get the job done. It doesn't just relate to "gun-rights", it is about our very freedom and the very real danger of sliding into total tyranny and being absorbed into some "One-World Government System".
"The only solution is ..............". YOU fill in the blank.
What is actually going to happen is...we as a free nation are going to die without a whimper.
The Elites have used OUR money and ingenuity to cut our own guts out.
If you have been paying attention...you have seen right on this forum a couple 'wanna-be elites'..smugly telling you that they rule the world..and intend to continue doing so.
Your opinion is not sought..nor needed. In fact..if you dare to voice an opinion contrary to support of the Elites...you will be attacked for it.
By the way...the system does NOT need to be 'replaced'. It needs to be ENFORCED..against the Elites...the power-mad garbage that worships money and power.
Some would say that at each and every junction, we pro-gun people DEMAND nothing less than complete and unfettered enjoyment of our constitutional right; as interperted by the pro-gunner side of the debate.
Other gun people, (me) would say just continue slogging alone doing the best we can and taking the best we can get and continue with small successes. Small successes such as having concealed carry (to one degree or another) in all but 2 states. Although the "purists" refuse to admit it, that CCW in 48 states IS progress in getting our gun rights. Interesting aside, from my reading I don't believe that Americans (from 1776 to now) EVER had consistant, widespread, constitutional concealed carry rights.
Another success is that now many (perhaps most) states have some kind of "castle doctrine" or "stand your ground" rights. This now means that if you are someplace you are supposed to be and you are attacked, you can legally defend you and yours without fear of jail time or of being hit with a civil suit. That is gun rights success except to the "purists."
Aanother success would be the laws passed after the Katria/ New Orleans hurricane. Civil authorites were confistcating firearms for EVERYONE including peaceful, lawful citizens. Laws were passed prohibiting that from happening in the future.
Now a case has been forced before the US Supreme Court for them to consider hearing . It could well be that if the court dedices that the 2nd Amendment applies to individual citizens, that our worry about gun rights are over.
All the above progress was accomplished, not by the gun owners wanting armed revolution, or by the gun owners that refuse to accept any improvement in gun rights unless that improvement meets their standard of "perfection." Nor was that success acheived by lone individuals working toward gun rights.
Instead it was accomplished by gun owners who banded together and worked together towards a common goal. While working towards that goal, they were willing to work within the legal system as it is thrown at us, were will to accept imperfections and refused to overthrow the system in order to get their gun rights.
That is how it should be done.
Yes, indeed.
And isn't it amusing how some so-called 'Pro-Constitution' people get so upset at the one man running that has STOOD FOR THAT DOCUMENT SINCE DAY ONE...???
The member above that went into rapture over having all those 'gun rights' restored...due to all those level-headed, bandedtogethergunowners...
It is perfectly pointless to point out to HIM the insanity of calling "codified into law PRIVLEGES"..."Gun Rights".
They are NOT THE SAME...all you that actually can think a bit.
See...I prefer that the TRFoxes of the world be totally disarmed..then to allow them to take MY RIGHTS...and make them privleges.
Some people are unable to understand that once the idea is firmly implanted that one may own a gun ONLY UNDER government supervision...it is a mere stroke of the pen to deny them to whomever those in power wish.
Were the people of America educated, reasoning individuals..instead of government drones..there would be absolutely no need of such claptrap as "Castile Doctrine"..since no sane, reasoning society would do more then hold an inquest into the death of a criminal.
Adding layers of law...instead of demanding sanity...is not the way out of this downward spiral of the death of a Nation...
quote:Easier to prevent the problem by electing a president who will obey the Constitution in the first place - unlike Bush.
Yes, indeed.
And isn't it amusing how some so-called 'Pro-Constitution' people get so upset at the one man running that has STOOD FOR THAT DOCUMENT SINCE DAY ONE...???
The member above that went into rapture over having all those 'gun rights' restored...due to all those level-headed, bandedtogethergunowners...
It is perfectly pointless to point out to HIM the insanity of calling "codified into law PRIVLEGES"..."Gun Rights".
They are NOT THE SAME...all you that actually can think a bit.
See...I prefer that the TRFoxes of the world be totally disarmed..then to allow them to take MY RIGHTS...and make them privleges.
Some people are unable to understand that once the idea is firmly implanted that one may own a gun ONLY UNDER government supervision...it is a mere stroke of the pen to deny them to whomever those in power wish.
Were the people of America educated, reasoning individuals..instead of government drones..there would be absolutely no need of such claptrap as "Castile Doctrine"..since no sane, reasoning society would do more then hold an inquest into the death of a criminal.
Adding layers of law...instead of demanding sanity...is not the way out of this downward spiral of the death of a Nation...
THAT is about as close to absolute truth as one can get. Another x-ring Highball.
The distinction is clear. A very few understand the bottom line of individual liberty and what that means and entails. Most do not and are a "good intentioned" product of todays America.
Those who do not understand, are going to be the primary reason for the continued loss of our Constitutional Republic. We can all see the socialist/globalist enemy, IF we choose to look. They are right out there in the open, working to destroy the republic. If that were the sum total of the problem, it could more easily be combated.
The insidious "main-stream" ignorance, acceptance of continuous "compromise" and simple apathy is what will be the cause of our ultimate downfall.
The other side merely complains, finds fault with the progress we have made, and urges us to do nothing; if perfection cannot be achieved by our efforts.
Let reasonable, sensible readers decided which bus to get on.
This poster persists in calling what we are saddled with as "rights".
Notice no capital letters on that word...ever.
The reason is simple. Without denigating this particular poster...he has no belief in God.
Those of us that DO believe in God..feel that Gods' law superceeds mans laws.
God has granted us "Rights'..just for being born.
With no belief in a higher power...MAN becomes the highest power. What man grants...man can take away.
Thusely...the NRA and supporters...and MOST gun owners...are comfortable with the government telling them when, where, and WHAT they can buy.
They have no problem crawling on their bellies to beg permission from garbage to buy this or that gun...because a stronger man has given them orders to do so.
That, folks, is the simple truth.
Decide which side of the line YOU are on..because some day it will be important.
You see, I believe TR gets off on these "games" of his. He won't outright admitt what he IS. If he did, where could all the fun of dancing around the truth come from? I used to think he was blind/ignorant, now I know he just has an agenda. He preys on the ignorant/ill informed.
We that ARE informed see him for what he really is. Sad anyone would really want to be like that.
I am not advocating "armed revolution". I am simply pointing out facts. Who knows what the future will bring if we don't get the government back on track?
Reference "demanding" complete and unfettered enjoyment of our constitutional rights, it would seem that that is EXACTLY what ALL Americans should be doing. Why aren't you? Why do you so cavalierly accept government tyranny reference your Rights? It does not take a genius to "interpret" the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution.
In answer to a few points from Mr. fox.
tr quote: "(me) would say just continue slogging alone doing the best we can and taking the best we can get and continue with small successes. Small successes such as having concealed carry (to one degree or another) in all but 2 states. Although the "purists" refuse to admit it, that CCW in 48 states IS progress in getting our gun rights."
For the upteenth time, government permission, regulation and control reference who is blessed to be able to carry a firearm, is NOT a Right, it is a privilege, period. Amendment II of the US Constitution's Bill of Rights does not grant government the authority to do so, period. Your (you and those like you) insistence on accepting this unconstitutional intrusion is a large problem. If you choose to "slog" along and TAKE what government gives you, fine. As I have said before, I think that more citizens carrying firearms, concealed or otherwise is a good thing. I would not classify the acknowledgment that the government has to authority and duty to decide and regulate who can and who can not carry firearms as a "success". This is simply another step down the road of more and more government control. What happens when, and it will be when, the pendulum swings to where those in power decide that issuing government permission, e.g. "a permit", is no longer a good idea for society? It has now been acknowledged as a privilege and as such, is revocable. Progress? I think not, just temporarily a convenience for many.
Another tr quote: "Aanother success would be the laws passed after the Katria/ New Orleans hurricane. Civil authorites were confistcating firearms for EVERYONE including peaceful, lawful citizens. Laws were passed prohibiting that from happening in the future."
Call me crazy, but isn't the constitution the law of the land as it concerns God Given Rights? Doesn't that already prevent gun confiscation? Why do we need a "new law"? Did any of the "civil authorities" get prosecuted and/or punished for violation of civil/constitutional rights???? Let me think....No! But we did get a new "law" out of it. How about enforcing the law of the land and holding our "civil authorities" accountable for violating it, rather than placating the masses with unnecessary new legislation?
And another: "Now a case has been forced before the US Supreme Court for them to consider hearing . It could well be that if the court dedices that the 2nd Amendment applies to individual citizens, that our worry about gun rights are over."
The case being spoken of, was in NO way due to NRA actions. The NRA attempted to prevent it from going to SCOTUS and to sidetrack it from the beginning. Other than that, it is a good thing that SCOTUS will be forced to decide. Now America will see if these political appointees in black robes uphold their oath, or if they are going to further the globalist/socialist agenda. Then WE shall see what Americans are made of, IF the ruling goes anti-constitution.
I will close by referencing the "bus" analogy by Mr. fox, by saying that he is right. Let reasonable, sensible readers decide which "bus" to get on..
I am on the individual liberty and government accountability bus, how about you?[;)]
but DON'T GET PERSONAL.
Keep it civil.
The US Constitution (just one valid source of of our rights) is an imperfect document that has been the major cause of this disagreement. That means we must find agreement or that agreement must be adjudicated for us. For my opponents here to claim that their views are the only correct views, or that I am some kind of traitor becasue I even question them, or that they will accept nothing less than complete and total enjoyment of their rights (rights as interpretated by them), or that revolution is the only answer, only suceeds in driving some people away that otherwise might be allies.
Now...it remains to be seen if those with lessor 'interpretations' of that Amendment are willing to do the same, to support THEIR willingness to bow the knee to big government.
The only thing lacking here..one bold move on the part of the rotten corrupt power structure to enforce their final stranglehold on the populace.
This may or may not be off topic and better served in another forum. However I will risk an admonition from pickenup and pose this simple test to stimulate the thought process.
If you are following the political scene at all, before you open and read this article, please make a guess as to whom it is in reference to, and then when you find out think about YOUR CHOICE!!
GO:
If XXX has xxx (This could be his or her, he or she) way, there soon may be no limit on how many more elections xxx may contest as xxx pushes ahead xxx plans for "21st-century socialism." A referendum next month will consider controversial constitutional amendments that include ending term limits and allowing for the suspension of civil liberties during states of emergency.
The planned amendments being pushed by the overwhelmingly are causing the leader headaches.
CLick here for link
Edited ONLY to shorten link. [;)]
Its about a wider audience.
I see some here blindly demand that their interpretation of our rights is the only interpretation that should be allowed. Even if I agree with their interpretations (often I do) I am not blind enough to deny that other people and groups MAY have an interpretation that, to a neutral observer, might have a great deal of truth and logic to that interpretation.
The US Constitution (just one valid source of of our rights) is an imperfect document that has been the major cause of this disagreement. That means we must find agreement or that agreement must be adjudicated for us. For my opponents here to claim that their views are the only correct views, or that I am some kind of traitor becasue I even question them, or that they will accept nothing less than complete and total enjoyment of their rights (rights as interpretated by them), or that revolution is the only answer, only suceeds in driving some people away that otherwise might be allies.
TR, just to be clear, I have NEVER intimated, or thought that you are a traitor. I think your heart and intentions are in the right place, but that your approach, judgments and constitutional understandings are wrong.
I simply state the Amendment II says what it says and that the intent and meaning of the founders who wrote it are crystal clear, period.