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Well, Gentlemen..

HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
We have been treated to two weeks of an articulate, eloquent defense of gun control.

This guy is worthy of Gun Control, Inc.or the NRA boardroom.

No doubt, those of us here supporting gun control have enjoyed the interlude..the ability to string 10,00 words together, take another mans' statement, turn it inside out and backwards and make it sound real takes real talent.

Get down to the nut-cuting, though.

Do you believe that the Founders , after spilling blood over gun confiscation, intended to ever again allow another strong central government the power to limit firearms to Citizens ?

Do some of you begin to grasp why I advocate withdrawal from the political process ? You cannot beat these people with words. They will bury you in rhetoric..telling you this while they mean that. You will wake up one fine day and discover that they control every aspect of your life.

Oh..wait..they already do that.

Comments

  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Highball...we've got to fight in every arena possible...
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Right on ECC! Every arena. I firmly believe in using the tools on paper before using the ones on my belt. That said, the Declaration of Independence is the prime document in this country. Followed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Highball,
    You know that I think the way you do, friend.

    I stopped bantering with him becuase no matter what you say, he/she "thinks" they are right.

    But you know, gunphreak and me are just militia nutjobs. [:D]
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Actually, Freemind;
    We over here are guilty of 'group think'.."More dangerous to the Republic then gun controllers"...according to some over on GB.

    Never mind that what we 'think' is what the Founders 'thought'..after all..to some people, THEY were fanatics/radicals/dangerous...

    Indeed those men WERE dangerous..to tyrants EVERYWHERE.

    I just CANNOT understnd the mentality that states that it is PERFECTLY proper for strong central governments to totally control the means of defense...OR agression.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Actually, Freemind;
    We over here are guilty of 'group think'.."More dangerous to the Republic then gun controllers"...according to some over on GB.

    Never mind that what we 'think' is what the Founders 'thought'..after all..to some people, THEY were fanatics/radicals/dangerous...


    I think you misunderstood my "groupthink" comment.....

    I WANT folks jumping on board to defend the 2nd Amendment. My concern lies in folks who get so used having the "mob" with them that they fail to think for themselves on everything else.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Some never will understand the passion that those of us who actually believe in individual liberty have and the accompanying lack of tolerance generally held for anti-constitution/anti-freedom views.

    Most here, probably as I do, see such nuanced reading and willful misunderstanding of what is the clear intent of the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights, as one of the true and primary dangers to the Republic.

    Freedom to speak and express one's views, regardless of their inaccuracies and untruths, is alive and well.

    Freedom from sharp criticism and glaring analysis of those views is likewise NOT alive and well here.

    Goes with the territory.

    If you espouse anti-freedom views, expect to get an impassioned response and understand that you had best grow some thick skin.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want an example of "groupthink" look no further than discussion of Ron Paul.

    Instead of really searching their hearts and minds in order to pick a canidate, most would rather bleet "He can't win!"


    Rather than a blind adherence to whatever the mob says the Constitution is, I want folks to THINK about what it says and (more importantly) WHY it says that.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lt496

    If you espouse anti-freedom views, expect to get an impassioned response and understand that you had best grow some thick skin.


    PB wasn't just given an "impassioned response". He was threatened...He had his personel information posted, etc...

    Several members jumped in to debate him. I have no problem with that....I DO have a problem with * who contribute nothing but cheap shots.

    When I came to this forum, my views weren't much different than his. I had the fortune of being engaged and debated....

    Would PB have been converted? Or was he just a troll here to stir up trouble? I don't have the answer to either of those questions but I would have liked to found out
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Rack;
    It is difficult to convey ideas and information on the net. It is EXTREMELY difficult to carry on a conversation with someone that insists on a couple thousand words in every reply.
    I personally no longer have the patience, time, or eyesight to sort through the endless repetitions that was exhibited by the latest gun controller on the boards.

    The `attacks' on him served a purpose.rapidly revealing what he was about. A man that is mad forgets to pour on the honey.to make his perverted ideas palatable.

    Believe me.I think that those stoutly defending the `right' of governments to control the means of retaking freedom are perverted. They have lost sight of reality.and are content living in the shade of big government.

    His continual ridiculing of the idea that we may have to..and have the ability to..restore freedom in this country..spit in the face of good men everywhere.

    I found reasons to dislike nearly every word he said..but I was not going to get into long-winded arguments with him. No matter WHAT you said.it was going to get twisted out of any recognizable shape.witness the 7-year old daughter that was offered to be `bought' by PB..so she could be adopted into a family that didn't regard her as `chattel'.

    That would have brought ME out fighting.INSTANTLY.
  • ljwrenchljwrench Member Posts: 5,053
    edited November -1
    Highball-I couldn't agree more. I understand the point he was trying to make and I did agree with him on some of his posts but it was the way he was trying to make those points. The way I look at this forum(and others) is, if I was having a party, get-together, cookout, ect. and someone showed up and was trying to make a point (whether I agreed with him or not) in the manner that Paleo was, I would politely ask him to tone it down. If then he got in my face to push his ideas furthers (in a more obnoxious tone) he would be gently be thrown out. I don't care for arrogant people and he was IMO very arrogant.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball

    The `attacks' on him served a purpose.rapidly revealing what he was about. A man that is mad forgets to pour on the honey.to make his perverted ideas palatable.

    Highball, on this point we're going to have to disagree. The attacks on PB "crossed the line" long before I began to see him reply with his own. If we allow these kinds of attacks on members, where does it stop? Folks who post on THIS forum are considered extremists by some over on general...Is it ok for them to post our phone numbers, addresses, etc just because we don't fall into line with the mob?
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by lt496

    If you espouse anti-freedom views, expect to get an impassioned response and understand that you had best grow some thick skin.


    PB wasn't just given an "impassioned response". He was threatened...He had his personel information posted, etc...

    Several members jumped in to debate him. I have no problem with that....I DO have a problem with * who contribute nothing but cheap shots.

    When I came to this forum, my views weren't much different than his. I had the fortune of being engaged and debated....

    Would PB have been converted? Or was he just a troll here to stir up trouble? I don't have the answer to either of those questions but I would have liked to found out


    Not arguing specific to PB here Rack.

    Just making a general point about posters who espouse a generally "anti-freedom", or "nuance the Constitution" mindset and the reaction they can expect to receive from those of us who differ from that mindset in our world-view.
  • TartersauceTartersauce Member Posts: 435 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rack Ops,

    PB posted his own info. Everything that was posted was google-able. Public domain and did not violate:

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/PostingGuidelines.asp

    Nor any laws.

    Nor was his address and phone number ever posted.


    ....tartersauce. :)
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it right.

    From what I understand, his information was posted...but quickly deleted. In any event, the information was available to anyone who send ObiWan an email
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:From what I understand, his information was posted...but quickly deleted. In any event, the information was available to anyone who send ObiWan an email
    I cannot address this. I signed off before the major battle erupted.

    I also cannot condone posting personal information by someone else.

    As far as those advocating depriving me..and, by default... YOU,of your Rights...I have little sympathy for them.
    They and their opinions ought to be driven back into the closet.
    If they want to spew out their vitriolic hatred of freedom..they ought to damn well get ready for push-back.
    Tell me, Rack...at what point are you willing to say..
    "You and your opinions have sold out American ideals?"

    See, Rack..I reached that point years ago. Gun Controllers HATE AMERICA...and her Ideals. They hate, despise, and fear freedom...witness the straw men erected by PB...REPEATIDLY ..7 year old girls going to school carrying m-16s.INDEED !!!

    No.gun controllers by and large are fearful little men.unsure of their ability to handle a `situation'..afraid of their fellow man..painfully aware of their OWN limitations.and foisting those limitations off on every other man in the world.

    Oddly.they trust the Beast. In SPITE of the 200-odd millions that various Beasts slaughtered last century.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball

    Tell me, Rack...at what point are you willing to say..
    "You and your opinions have sold out American ideals?"



    Highball, there is a time for words and a time for action. The time for action has not been reached, and I don't think you'll disagree with me on that point.

    Our freedom was born in the fire of the battlefield, but our Constitution was forged in the fire of debate. The founders were not only warriors, but included the finest minds of their age.

    By refusing to engage in debate and instead resorting to mindless attacks, we dishonor their legacy as surely as those who would pervert the liberty they sacrificed so much to win.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:The time for action has not been reached
    Of course.

    After a lifetime spent engaging these people..mostly politely..I am no longer qualified to be 'point man' for civil discussions with those determined to destroy freedom.

    I will leave that up to others.
    Now..if others will not step up and debate 'civilly'..on the side of freedom...well, I guess that leaves me and my sledgehammer.

    Ever wonder why we we have only a tiny handful of people able to 'debate with the likes of PB, Whiteclouder or the ilk ? I believe that the educational system destroys the ability to apreciate freedom...and the better the educated..the better the follower of big government.

    I have no interest in debating endlessly how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
    My answer is always;
    Who here believes that the Founders INTENDED..after spilling buckets of blood ..for strong central government to control the means to control that government ?
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by lt496

    If you espouse anti-freedom views, expect to get an impassioned response and understand that you had best grow some thick skin.


    PB wasn't just given an "impassioned response". He was threatened...He had his personel information posted, etc...

    Several members jumped in to debate him. I have no problem with that....I DO have a problem with * who contribute nothing but cheap shots.

    When I came to this forum, my views weren't much different than his. I had the fortune of being engaged and debated....

    Would PB have been converted? Or was he just a troll here to stir up trouble? I don't have the answer to either of those questions but I would have liked to found out



    This is BS Rack Ops...plain and simple BS...as a matter of fact, the exact opposite is true. PB wanted to run to his corner and cry whenever someone stumped him up...not only that, but he was guilty of everything you are claiming was done against him. Sorry bud, but you are either not privy to all the facts or you are sorely misguided.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Rack;
    It is difficult to convey ideas and information on the net. It is EXTREMELY difficult to carry on a conversation with someone that insists on a couple thousand words in every reply.
    I personally no longer have the patience, time, or eyesight to sort through the endless repetitions that was exhibited by the latest gun controller on the boards.

    The `attacks' on him served a purpose.rapidly revealing what he was about. A man that is mad forgets to pour on the honey.to make his perverted ideas palatable.

    Believe me.I think that those stoutly defending the `right' of governments to control the means of retaking freedom are perverted. They have lost sight of reality.and are content living in the shade of big government.

    His continual ridiculing of the idea that we may have to..and have the ability to..restore freedom in this country..spit in the face of good men everywhere.

    I found reasons to dislike nearly every word he said..but I was not going to get into long-winded arguments with him. No matter WHAT you said.it was going to get twisted out of any recognizable shape.witness the 7-year old daughter that was offered to be `bought' by PB..so she could be adopted into a family that didn't regard her as `chattel'.

    That would have brought ME out fighting.INSTANTLY.




    Well said Highball
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tartersauce
    Rack Ops,

    PB posted his own info. Everything that was posted was google-able. Public domain and did not violate:

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/PostingGuidelines.asp

    Nor any laws.

    Nor was his address and phone number ever posted.


    ....tartersauce. :)





    No one ever posted PB's info...Period. I'd like to set the record straight on that point.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ECC

    No one ever posted PB's info...Period. I'd like to set the record straight on that point.


    PB's personal info was available to anyone who sent Obiwan an email...I'd like to set the record straight on that point.
  • TartersauceTartersauce Member Posts: 435 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by ECC

    No one ever posted PB's info...Period. I'd like to set the record straight on that point.


    PB's personal info was available to anyone who sent Obiwan an email...I'd like to set the record straight on that point.


    Nobody could ever email Obiwan. That user account was created with a throw away hotmail email account to fight the Neo Jedi's of old on the forum. The user formerly known as Obiwan uses the internet anonymously.

    No one has ever met him nor knows his name nor knows actually where in the world he is or what he does.

    For example....you could email my email....and will get no response. I already forgot the email account for this log on. [:p]
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tartersauce

    Nobody could ever email Obiwan. That user account was created with a throw away hotmail email account to fight the Neo Jedi's of old on the forum. The user formerly known as Obiwan uses the internet anonymously.


    If I recall, "Obiwan" did appear during the whole Neo-Jedi saga, but had nothing do with them. As far as I remember, he was another poster who wandered in from Stormfront.org.

    I wouldn't expect a "new member" to be around long enough to remember the Jedis.....Whose "throw away" account are you?
  • TartersauceTartersauce Member Posts: 435 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nitrouz...banned for the "Burn California Burn" thread......I go back a few years.[}:)]
    Red223....banned for ......too long ago...don't even remember.
    Obiwan...banned for the F-bomb as of late.


    Plus a few other logins.[:D]


    Obiwan never came from stormfront....was made to look like he came from stormfront to undermine the NeoJedi's.

    Worked pretty good.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,597 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tartersauce

    Obiwan never came from stormfront....was made to look like he came from stormfront to undermine the NeoJedi's.

    Worked pretty good.


    I guess some folks just have more spare time than me.

    At least you're honest
  • TartersauceTartersauce Member Posts: 435 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not really.

    Honest is free from fraud or deception.

    I make it a point to not let people know my actual location, job, name.

    Just so some A-hole doesn't post my info on a forum.[}:)]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by ECC

    No one ever posted PB's info...Period. I'd like to set the record straight on that point.


    PB's personal info was available to anyone who sent Obiwan an email...I'd like to set the record straight on that point.



    But it was not posted on the board as you claimed and Obiwan is not associated with GB in any way whatsoever. I also have not heard of one case where Obiwan gave this information out to anyone.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tartersauce
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by ECC

    No one ever posted PB's info...Period. I'd like to set the record straight on that point.


    PB's personal info was available to anyone who sent Obiwan an email...I'd like to set the record straight on that point.


    Nobody could ever email Obiwan. That user account was created with a throw away hotmail email account to fight the Neo Jedi's of old on the forum. The user formerly known as Obiwan uses the internet anonymously.

    No one has ever met him nor knows his name nor knows actually where in the world he is or what he does.

    For example....you could email my email....and will get no response. I already forgot the email account for this log on. [:p]



    I'm quite sure I know who Obiwan used to be.[;)]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tartersauce
    Nitrouz...banned for the "Burn California Burn" thread......I go back a few years.[}:)]
    Red223....banned for ......too long ago...don't even remember.
    Obiwan...banned for the F-bomb as of late.


    Plus a few other logins.[:D]


    Obiwan never came from stormfront....was made to look like he came from stormfront to undermine the NeoJedi's.

    Worked pretty good.


    Red...I knew this was you...Obiwan that is.[;)]
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