In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
NRA Supporting Gun Control
tr fox
Member Posts: 13,856
I wish to comment on only one or two facts about a topic that was posted titled : "NRA Supporting Gun-Control. Their Own Words."
But first I will mention that when ever someone, Angel Shamaya and IT496 for example, want to present their viewpoint I sincerely appreciate how much research they have obviously done and how much "evidence" they bring to the table. And with the ocean of negative examples that are presented I will not even try and refute any of it. It is frankly too overwhelming to try and counter. Course, if someone examined my life and was able to focus only on the bad things I have done (often by accident or out of ignorance) then they could make me look like a bad, bad person when in fact I don't think I am all that bad.
But I do have a couple of comments/questions about all this. #1 is that I have long been aware of Angel Shamaya who lives in Fla and is the founder of KeepandBeararms.com (not to be confused with the 2nd Amendment Foundation's Allen Gottlieb's organization The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.). I have even emailed Angel Shamaya several times years ago. I came in contact with Angel through one of his longtime friends and supporters, who is a feature writer for one of the major gun magazines by, the name David Cordea and who lives in Calif. I at first wanted to send Angel a check so as to become a member of his organization because I foolishly mistook his organization for Allen Gottlieb's organization. I in fact did send the check and waited for my memember ship card. When it did not arrive I check with Angel and he said he did not get the check and he would check with his bookkeeper to see if my check could be found. My check never was found or cashed. After I realized my mistake of thinking Angel's organization was Gottliebs organization and becasue Angel seem overly rabid in his attitudes towards the NRA, I decided to not send another check.
What I am getting at in regards to Angel Shamaya is that it appears to me that his organization has no members nor does it want any members. In fact it appears that the only reason for Shamaya to even have an "organization" is so when he criticizes the NRA his words will be taken more seriously. In addition I have NEVER seen any evidence whereas Shamaya's organization has ever done anything to help with our gun rights. All I have ever seen is Shamaya issusing criticism of the NRA. That appears to be his only reason for existing. If this is true, I have to wonder why instead of pushing for gun rights does Shamaya focus only on bashing the NRA? Keeping in mind that there are organized people/organizations out there that pose as pro-gun rights groups when in fact they are anti-gun and are working undercover, along with their visible anti-gun allies, to destroy our gun rights.
BTW, I have never seen any newsletters, flyers, magazines, government hearings or protest demonstrations, etc. for gun rights or against gun laws that was organized by Angel Shamaya. It appears all he does is to rail against the NRA for their admittitly past mistakes.
My other question is about how there are approximately 84 million gun owners in the USA. I assume that at least half of those owners are aware of the fact that people, politicans and organizations are constantly working to take away our guns. IN view of that I assusme there must be about 42 million people who would be somewhat willing to pay a modest amount to be a supporting member of a good pro-gun rights organization that would help with the political fight to save our gun rights. The NRA only has about 4 million members out of that 42 million. Let's say that those NRA members are foolish and actually are supporting an organization that is in favor of gun laws. If that is the case, why haven't those other 38 million gun owners recognized that the NRA is not for them but that they need some political gun rights organization and why hasn't the NRA long ago been eclisped by another organization? In spite of all the negative things that are published about the NRA, it is still the oldest, largest, has the most members and the most power and the most assests of any other gun rights organization. Why is that, if it is indeed so bad?
Is it just a case of the 4 million NRA members being too dumb to abandon the NRA and the other 38 million gun owners being too cheap and lazy to join up with some other organization?
But first I will mention that when ever someone, Angel Shamaya and IT496 for example, want to present their viewpoint I sincerely appreciate how much research they have obviously done and how much "evidence" they bring to the table. And with the ocean of negative examples that are presented I will not even try and refute any of it. It is frankly too overwhelming to try and counter. Course, if someone examined my life and was able to focus only on the bad things I have done (often by accident or out of ignorance) then they could make me look like a bad, bad person when in fact I don't think I am all that bad.
But I do have a couple of comments/questions about all this. #1 is that I have long been aware of Angel Shamaya who lives in Fla and is the founder of KeepandBeararms.com (not to be confused with the 2nd Amendment Foundation's Allen Gottlieb's organization The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.). I have even emailed Angel Shamaya several times years ago. I came in contact with Angel through one of his longtime friends and supporters, who is a feature writer for one of the major gun magazines by, the name David Cordea and who lives in Calif. I at first wanted to send Angel a check so as to become a member of his organization because I foolishly mistook his organization for Allen Gottlieb's organization. I in fact did send the check and waited for my memember ship card. When it did not arrive I check with Angel and he said he did not get the check and he would check with his bookkeeper to see if my check could be found. My check never was found or cashed. After I realized my mistake of thinking Angel's organization was Gottliebs organization and becasue Angel seem overly rabid in his attitudes towards the NRA, I decided to not send another check.
What I am getting at in regards to Angel Shamaya is that it appears to me that his organization has no members nor does it want any members. In fact it appears that the only reason for Shamaya to even have an "organization" is so when he criticizes the NRA his words will be taken more seriously. In addition I have NEVER seen any evidence whereas Shamaya's organization has ever done anything to help with our gun rights. All I have ever seen is Shamaya issusing criticism of the NRA. That appears to be his only reason for existing. If this is true, I have to wonder why instead of pushing for gun rights does Shamaya focus only on bashing the NRA? Keeping in mind that there are organized people/organizations out there that pose as pro-gun rights groups when in fact they are anti-gun and are working undercover, along with their visible anti-gun allies, to destroy our gun rights.
BTW, I have never seen any newsletters, flyers, magazines, government hearings or protest demonstrations, etc. for gun rights or against gun laws that was organized by Angel Shamaya. It appears all he does is to rail against the NRA for their admittitly past mistakes.
My other question is about how there are approximately 84 million gun owners in the USA. I assume that at least half of those owners are aware of the fact that people, politicans and organizations are constantly working to take away our guns. IN view of that I assusme there must be about 42 million people who would be somewhat willing to pay a modest amount to be a supporting member of a good pro-gun rights organization that would help with the political fight to save our gun rights. The NRA only has about 4 million members out of that 42 million. Let's say that those NRA members are foolish and actually are supporting an organization that is in favor of gun laws. If that is the case, why haven't those other 38 million gun owners recognized that the NRA is not for them but that they need some political gun rights organization and why hasn't the NRA long ago been eclisped by another organization? In spite of all the negative things that are published about the NRA, it is still the oldest, largest, has the most members and the most power and the most assests of any other gun rights organization. Why is that, if it is indeed so bad?
Is it just a case of the 4 million NRA members being too dumb to abandon the NRA and the other 38 million gun owners being too cheap and lazy to join up with some other organization?
Comments
All the article does is paint the historical context that the NRA operated in and continues to operate in. It simply isn't about Angel Shamaya, or "KeepandBearArms.com".
The intent of the article is to put to rest the "myth" of the NRA and to show the organization for what it is, to the American gun-owners....that being, it is a supporter of government regulation of firearms, AKA, gun-control.
That seems not to be refutable.
What usually happens in instances of such information being posted and what has happened again here, is that the "rationalizations" and "justifications" (read excuses) get dragged out and waved around, and we are told that the messenger is somehow bad, thus attempting to cast doubt on the information, rather than address the ISSUE.
The other response is to grudgingly acknowledge that the NRA did in fact support some types of gun-control, but that we are to view it as "a mistake", or view that the NRA "had to do it" and/or that it was isolated and outweighed by the "greater good" that the NRA is claimed to do.
This is always followed by another plea/statement for gun-owners to continue to support the NRA despite the clear track record.
The most important fact to glean from the information about the NRA's support of gun-control is that this is a "pattern" of action, not an isolated instance or two.
The only conclusion that can be drawn from all this is that those gun-owners who support the NRA fall into one of several categories:
*Ignorant of the facts. This is the reason that this stuff is posted, to educate.
*Willfully ignore the facts, because they feel compromising any personal ethics and integrity they have about Amendment II is more important than taking a stand, due to some "greater good" theory.
*Have no clue what the Bill of Rights mean and the restriction that they impose on government.
*Are gun-owners, but they are also supporters of many forms of government regulation of firearms, AKA gun-control.
Simply put, the NRA seems to view the Second Amendment as something that empowers the government to regulate (read infringe) on all things related to firearms.
This clearly differs from the US Constitution's Amendment II, found in the Bill of Rights.
It is that simple.
Never once, in the 59 years I have been breathing air, have I accidently or thru ignorance supported a gun law.
NOT ONE TIME.
It is difficult...nay//impossible for me to believe that someone can support a gun law without KNOWING that it contravenes the Constitution.
Bad, bad people support giving the government control over the only means citizens have of keeping a real check on the Beast....
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp
Apparently all that bashing is not working.
It is still odd to me that the NRA continues to have more of an impact (good or bad, your call) on gun rights more so that anyother national gun rights organization(s) in the world.. Yet all I hear is NRA bashing.
Apparently all that bashing is not working.
Probably not tr, at least in most cases.
Your team will likely be triumphant and we will all suffer being completely disarmed due to that victory against the Constitution and against individual freedoms.
The fact remains that the information being posted about NRA actions (or "bashing" if you rather) is true and correct.
All that the lack of "impact" points to, is that most gun-owning Americans are ignorant, stupid, or that they willfully support what they see as "limited" or "reasonable" gun-control.
It is that simple.
None of that means squat to me. I will continue to shine the bright light of day on the NRA and/or anyone else who is supportive of gun-control and who is guilty of eroding the US Constitution.
Stupidity absolutely abounds here in this land.