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California Shooting
crash2usaf
Member Posts: 4,094
A woman was shot to death while on the phone with a 911 operator, officers arrived a few minutes later.
-- A woman was asking a 911 dispatcher for help when her pleas were interrupted by gunshots, then silence.
A woman's 911 call was interrupted by gunshots.
She was shot to death.
The woman told the dispatcher someone was trying to break into her home in upscale West Covina, Los Angeles County sheriff's Lt. Dan Rosenberg said.
"Deputies heard gunshots followed by silence and an open phone line," he said.
Deputies arrived at the house, 20 miles east of Los Angeles, a few minutes after Wednesday's late morning call.
The woman, whose name was not released by police, had been shot several times. Paramedics pronounced her dead at the scene.
This kind of puts things in perspective, I don't see how the anti-gunners can still protest, their laws did not save this woman. I don't know about everyone else but my wife knows that she empties the magazine into the bad guy, reloads if necessary then call 911, and ask then to pick up the body.
-- A woman was asking a 911 dispatcher for help when her pleas were interrupted by gunshots, then silence.
A woman's 911 call was interrupted by gunshots.
She was shot to death.
The woman told the dispatcher someone was trying to break into her home in upscale West Covina, Los Angeles County sheriff's Lt. Dan Rosenberg said.
"Deputies heard gunshots followed by silence and an open phone line," he said.
Deputies arrived at the house, 20 miles east of Los Angeles, a few minutes after Wednesday's late morning call.
The woman, whose name was not released by police, had been shot several times. Paramedics pronounced her dead at the scene.
This kind of puts things in perspective, I don't see how the anti-gunners can still protest, their laws did not save this woman. I don't know about everyone else but my wife knows that she empties the magazine into the bad guy, reloads if necessary then call 911, and ask then to pick up the body.
Comments
Guess it didn't work, this time. [V]
The existence/dependence on 911 was arguably as responsible for their deaths as was the shooter.
We all need to go out and each recruit one more NRA member
You have not read this forum much, have you?
I agree with everything else you said, just not this.
quote:each recruit one more NRA member; 8 million instead of 4 will get someone's attention. Take the fight to each and every politician who represents
I'd have to admit, I don't understand the beef with the NRA. I have belonged for over 40 years. I donate money to them regularly. I support the Constitution and the right to keep and bear arms. The NRA is the largest voice with the most clout that does the same. They appear to be on my side. It would also appear they would be on your side. I have trained myself as a better marksman over the years at NRA affiliated clubs, and have attended many NRA match competitions. The many members I have met over the years have been very often like me, with a fire in their hearts to preserve the liberties we have in this country, those liberties especially preserved by our citizens having the right to armed.
Sadly, you are but a lamb in a den of wolves. Run! Save yourself while you still can. It's too late for me.
quote:Originally posted by PA Shootist
I'd have to admit, I don't understand the beef with the NRA. I have belonged for over 40 years. I donate money to them regularly. I support the Constitution and the right to keep and bear arms.
Not through your support of the NRA you don't. They support something other than Amendment II to the US Constitution's Bill of Rights.
That something is the privilege to hunt, shoot, own guns for that and self-defense....all with government regulations and controls.
The NRA is the largest voice with the most clout that does the same. They appear to be on my side. It would also appear they would be on your side.
Yep, they are the largest voice, constantly whispering in the ears of America's Citizens.....telling them to continue to support them, because "they" are the "staunch defenders of "your" Second Amendment rights".
All the while they work back-door deals and are also openly working to facilitate more government regulation and control over "your" privilege to keep and bear arms, albeit under government control (used to be a right, but the NRA never acknowledged that little factoid).
I have trained myself as a better marksman over the years at NRA affiliated clubs, and have attended many NRA match competitions. The many members I have met over the years have been very often like me, with a fire in their hearts to preserve the liberties we have in this country, those liberties especially preserved by our citizens having the right to armed.
This statement does not jibe with NRA actions. Either you are ignorant of the NRA's real actions and of what it is that they "support and defend", or you willingly ignore what they do because you somehow "want to believe" that they actually defend Amendment II.
Not meant as a personal attack, just a factual observation. Glad to discuss that observation if you so desire.
After reading these three threads, if you still don't understand.......well.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=263795
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=287342
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=293108
You know I was considering joining the NRA, but the cost of doing so vs the benefits I would receive made me think twice, so instead I bought ammo. I have a hard time donating money to political organizations no matter how much "they help the people", besides I am a volunteer fireman, and donate much time and money to that cause which directly benefits my community....
Assuming that the NRA does help with gun rights (I believe they do) throwing a measly $25.00 per year (coupon price) at them to become a supporting member is barely pocket change. In other words, the cost is tiny and the payoff could be huge.
Almost 4 million other American gun owners believe in the NRA enough that they pay their dues each year. Surely all 4 million members can't all be dumb or bamboozled by the NRA.
But at the very least, if you don't sacrefice any time, money or effort for the NRA ,please at least pick one of the very few national gun rights organizations that you have faith in and help them. Much of the gun rights battle is a political battle and there is no single gun owner that can wage an effective political battle without linking up with millions of other gun owners. The only way I know how to do that is to become a dues paying member of some organization.
Surely all 4 million members can't all be dumb or bamboozled by the NRA.
Lets look at this statement, since you have probably posted it at least a dozen times.
First, why do YOU always have to refer to those members as DUMB, or STUPID, or, **** etc? Degrading members that you have never met? And your trying to be their spokesman? Don't degrade them, call them "uninformed" as I do.
We can use this very forum, as a prime example. Over the years, we have had many new members show up here, defending the NRA. They have been NRA members for YEARS. With some, membership in the NRA has been passed down through GENERATIONS. Many are life members, or Endowment, Patron, or Benefactor members.
They show up as "uninformed" as WE were, when we first started out. Once having the benefit of being "informed" of the "other side" of the NRA, MANY have chosen to no longer bury their heads in the sand, they have taken the NRA off the pedestal they had it placed on. They have opened their eyes, and can now see the NRA for what it really is.
There will be some that will not waiver from their devotion to the NRA. No matter what. They will continue to support an organization that has been proven to be ACTIVELY compromising our rights away. There will be others, who begrudgingly will continue their membership, simply because it is a requirement for the gun club they belong to, shoot at, etc.
The NRA wasn't stupid when they entrenched themselves into gun clubs, sporting clubs, etc. They ensured their very existence with the clubs establishing the requirement, of NRA membership, to be club members. Did they know, that there would come a day, when members would become disenchanted with the NRA? When members would find out, the TRUTH.
So, in regards to your original statement. If ALL 4 millions members were to be "INFORMED" I would be willing to bet that there would be a LARGE percentage of them, that YOU would not be able to call....DUMB anymore.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Surely all 4 million members can't all be dumb or bamboozled by the NRA.
Lets look at this statement, since you have probably posted it at least a dozen times.
First, why do YOU always have to refer to those members as DUMB, or STUPID, or, **** etc? Degrading members that you have never met? And your trying to be their spokesman? Don't degrade them, call them "uninformed" as I do.
We can use this very forum, as a prime example. Over the years, we have had many new members show up here, defending the NRA. They have been NRA members for YEARS. With some, membership in the NRA has been passed down through GENERATIONS. Many are life members, or Endowment, Patron, or Benefactor members.
They show up as "uninformed" as WE were, when we first started out. Once having the benefit of being "informed" of the "other side" of the NRA, MANY have chosen to no longer bury their heads in the sand, they have taken the NRA off the pedestal they had it placed on. They have opened their eyes, and can now see the NRA for what it really is.
There will be some that will not waiver from their devotion to the NRA. No matter what. They will continue to support an organization that has been proven to be ACTIVELY compromising our rights away. There will be others, who begrudgingly will continue their membership, simply because it is a requirement for the gun club they belong to, shoot at, etc.
The NRA wasn't stupid when they entrenched themselves into gun clubs, sporting clubs, etc. They ensured their very existence with the clubs establishing the requirement, of NRA membership, to be club members. Did they know, that there would come a day, when members would become disenchanted with the NRA? When members would find out, the TRUTH.
So, in regards to your original statement. If ALL 4 millions members were to be "INFORMED" I would be willing to bet that there would be a LARGE percentage of them, that YOU would not be able to call....DUMB anymore.
Those 4 million members are not in a coma. They have at least some awareness of what happens in the world each day. Yet they still remain as dues paying members. I think that such behavior is considered "dumb" or "stupid" by the NRA bashers.
In addition, during the several years that I have observed the NRA bashers right here on GB.com in action, I have yet to see another national pro-gun rights organization emerge that is large enough, powerful enough, knowledgeable enough, politically connected enough, experienced enough, etc., etc., that they would be able to challenge the dominance of the NRA. If and when such an organization reveals itself to be a challenge to the NRA, I myself might consider changing my membership support.
In the meantime, despite the NRA bashers, the NRA does more each year to influence gun rights by accident than any competing national gun rights organization is able to do on purpose . Agree with me or not, I would prefer to back a winner who is only on my side 50% of the time rather than a loser that is on my side 100% of the time. And if you objectively think about it, (the bashers won't, I know, and don't expect them to change) any reasonable person would agree.
If we all did this, a good audience for new recruits will not be hunters. It will be constitutionalists who will make the leadership of the NRA rail against gun kontrol. They can start with that damned machine gun ban.
Those 4 million members are not in a coma.
No, they are UNINFORMED.
As is PROVEN ON THIS VERY FORUM.....
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND.....
New members here, who have been NRA members for YEARS, had NO IDEA.
It is NOT like the NRA is going to tell them. DUH....
Once informed........
Deny it all you want, ain't gonna change the facts.
MANY wake up.
I would rather NOT pay someone to STAB ME IN THE BACK 50% of the time,
even if they make me "FEEL GOOD" the other 50%.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I have yet to see another national pro-gun rights organization emerge that is large enough, powerful enough, knowledgeable enough, politically connected enough, experienced enough,
I am working on that, one UNINFORMED NRA member at a time.
Can you imagine what the GOA could do, with 4 million NO COMPROMISE members?
I can. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Those 4 million members are not in a coma.
No, they are UNINFORMED.
As is PROVEN ON THIS VERY FORUM.....
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND.....
New members here, who have been NRA members for YEARS, had NO IDEA.
It is NOT like the NRA is going to tell them. DUH....
Once informed........
Deny it all you want, ain't gonna change the facts.
MANY wake up.
I would rather NOT pay someone to STAB ME IN THE BACK 50% of the time,
even if they make me "FEEL GOOD" the other 50%.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I have yet to see another national pro-gun rights organization emerge that is large enough, powerful enough, knowledgeable enough, politically connected enough, experienced enough,
I am working on that, one UNINFORMED NRA member at a time.
Can you imagine what the GOA could do, with 4 million NO COMPROMISE members?
I can. [;)]
Yes. I agree with you. I can imagine what GOA with 4 million members could do. BUT IT AIN'T HAPPENING. So my only choice is to pull back into the world of what IS happening. The NRA is still dominate. I feel if your "one NRA member at a time" campaign succeeds, and the NRA falls, nothing will take it's place. Some here may feel that is a good thing. But I feel it is a bad thing.
quote:It's not about duck hunting, a la Bill Clinton's inane statements. As a 'longtime member of the NRA..remember when they TOO talked about 'sporting use' guns ?
quote: It is more all about defending ourselves from the tyranny of government, and defending ourselves from the jackals and predators of society.
Tell me....with most gun owners now in the data base..due in part because of NRA support...the death toll on Americans that will fight now approaches a breaking point, were we to 'defend ourselves from tyranny'....
How does this jibe with your continuing support for the organzation that has compromised away the security of obscurity ?
quote: I have read the tirades posted here, and I can't buy into the arguments given. If not for the NRA, this web-site wouldn't be Gunbroker.com; it would be something else, there wouldn't be any guns for us all to be interested in, except possibly as pieces of bygone history in better, happier times.
Quite possible you are right about this.
Naturally, this assumes that the ENTIRE population of 'men' in America are now cowards...a supposition I find ridicules.
I think, myself, that you NRA supporters are riding on the backs of men that WILL fight.and the Elites are quite aware of it.
I have observed the NRA as a member for over 40 years. I am a Benefactor Life Member; I have put my money where my mouth is, over and over again. I think those on here who would, as has been said, replace the NRA, even if not a perfect organization, with NOTHING, are just plain wrong. There is no other organization that would be able to do the job they have done. I am not a dumb sheep being led to some slaughter. I have watched the fight over all these years. I have participated in it on many levels. We haven't won every battle, but we have won some. And we have prevented the total registration, and/or prohibition, and/or confiscation confiscation of privately-owned firearms that would have by now occurred if there had not been an NRA organization. It's not about duck hunting, a la Bill Clinton's inane statements. It is more all about defending ourselves from the tyranny of government, and defending ourselves from the jackals and predators of society. I have read the tirades posted here, and I can't buy into the arguments given. If not for the NRA, this web-site wouldn't be Gunbroker.com; it would be something else, there wouldn't be any guns for us all to be interested in, except possibly as pieces of bygone history in better, happier times.
A prime example of....
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
There will be some that will not waiver from their devotion to the NRA. No matter what. They will continue to support an organization that has been proven to be ACTIVELY compromising our rights away.
I put my money where my mouth is as well.
I prefer to support NO COMPROMISE........PRO-GUN organizations.
The GOA, JPFO, along with RMGO, and others.
While I would LOVE to see it, I don't expect change overnight, like some people DEMAND.
I know it will take time, the question is, do we have.....the time?
No, any reasonable person would not agree. Stop and think what your saying. Its this type of thinking that has gotten us where we are.
Compare it to the presidential canidates. Everyone always talks about change, about electing officals that are pro-2nd amendment, pro-constituion, but when it comes down to it, it never happens. Why, because people that think like you would rather support "a winner" than back someone they truely belive in.
Change will never happen until enough people get tired of always voting for the lesser of two evils, and are willing to back people they support.
Its no diffrent with the NRA. I have seen you write many times that if people dont agree with everything the NRA does then they should still join and fix it from the inside. While its true that if enough people joined that wanted change, then change would happen, but its unrealistic. Just like if enough people voted for a true conservative presidential canidate, then they would get elected.
quote:Yes. I agree with you. I can imagine what GOA with 4 million members could do. BUT IT AIN'T HAPPENING. So my only choice is to pull back into the world of what IS happening. The NRA is still dominate. I feel if your "one NRA member at a time" campaign succeeds, and the NRA falls, nothing will take it's place. Some here may feel that is a good thing. But I feel it is a bad thing.
Exactly. Imagine what the GOA with 4 million members would be like. Maybe instead of defending the NRA so much, and trying to still get people to join, maybe a more productive endevor would be to try and get people to join the GOA like you do the NRA.
Just like most people wont vote for a politician that has no chance of winning, most informed gun owners are not going to join the NRA until they see that it has changed. The problem is it isnt going to change unless enough people joined to demand change. Kind of a catch-22.
quote:Almost 4 million other American gun owners believe in the NRA enough that they pay their dues each year. Surely all 4 million members can't all be dumb or bamboozled by the NRA.
I think alot of them just dont know any better. Or their dads were members, and so are they. Or they dont care about much of anything as long as they can own a deer rifle and a shotgun for birds. Or, they belong to a shooting range that requires membership in the NRA. There are numerous reasons people might still be paying dues every year, and it isnt necesarilly beacuse they belive in the NRA.
Sorry for the long post.
Tr, I know your one of the ones fighting the good fight. I'm not questioning any of that at all. I am just trying to point out the error of your thinking "always back a winner who is only on your side half the time".
quote:In the meantime, despite the NRA bashers, the NRA does more each year to influence gun rights by accident than any competing national gun rights organization is able to do on purpose . Agree with me or not, I would prefer to back a winner who is only on my side 50% of the time rather than a loser that is on my side 100% of the time. And if you objectively think about it, (the bashers won't, I know, and don't expect them to change) any reasonable person would agree.
No, any reasonable person would not agree. Stop and think what your saying. Its this type of thinking that has gotten us where we are.
Compare it to the presidential canidates. Everyone always talks about change, about electing officals that are pro-2nd amendment, pro-constituion, but when it comes down to it, it never happens. Why, because people that think like you would rather support "a winner" than back someone they truely belive in.
Change will never happen until enough people get tired of always voting for the lesser of two evils, and are willing to back people they support.
Its no diffrent with the NRA. I have seen you write many times that if people dont agree with everything the NRA does then they should still join and fix it from the inside. While its true that if enough people joined that wanted change, then change would happen, but its unrealistic. Just like if enough people voted for a true conservative presidential canidate, then they would get elected.
quote:Yes. I agree with you. I can imagine what GOA with 4 million members could do. BUT IT AIN'T HAPPENING. So my only choice is to pull back into the world of what IS happening. The NRA is still dominate. I feel if your "one NRA member at a time" campaign succeeds, and the NRA falls, nothing will take it's place. Some here may feel that is a good thing. But I feel it is a bad thing.
Exactly. Imagine what the GOA with 4 million members would be like. Maybe instead of defending the NRA so much, and trying to still get people to join, maybe a more productive endevor would be to try and get people to join the GOA like you do the NRA.
Just like most people wont vote for a politician that has no chance of winning, most informed gun owners are not going to join the NRA until they see that it has changed. The problem is it isnt going to change unless enough people joined to demand change. Kind of a catch-22.
quote:Almost 4 million other American gun owners believe in the NRA enough that they pay their dues each year. Surely all 4 million members can't all be dumb or bamboozled by the NRA.
I think alot of them just dont know any better. Or their dads were members, and so are they. Or they dont care about much of anything as long as they can own a deer rifle and a shotgun for birds. Or, they belong to a shooting range that requires membership in the NRA. There are numerous reasons people might still be paying dues every year, and it isnt necesarilly beacuse they belive in the NRA.
Sorry for the long post.
Tr, I know your one of the ones fighting the good fight. I'm not questioning any of that at all. I am just trying to point out the error of your thinking "always back a winner who is only on your side half the time".
Thank you for your thougtful post.
In red above. Does it surprise you to know that I am a dues paying member of the GOA and SAF as well as the NRA?. I would like to see those three, as well as even more gun rights organizations, become more powerful, better financed, more politically connected, etc. as well as fight for stronger gun rights for lawful citizens as provided for by the natural right of self-defense, the US 2A and the KS constitution of my home state.
But over the years, despite the NRA bashers trying to drive away NRA members, (and they have some success) I do not see any other organizations growing to take the place of the NRA. Therefore I cannot be like so many of the NRA bashers who are willing to see the demise of the NRA being replaced with nothing!. The NRA does a lot of good for gun owners (not perfect I admit) and it is the oldest, biggest, baddest and strongest gun rights organization in the world.
Under the above conditions, how could I possible ever wish for the demise of the NRA to be replace WITH NOTHING.
The premise is...you re going to lose ALL your permissions one of these days. Get used to it.
You already bargained away your Rights..
Further ..it is FAR better for those permissions to go away RIGHT NOW...rather then 20 years down the road.
There is still enough of us left alive...those who won't submit ..that we well may carry the day, and take this country back into freedom.
I realize that scenario makes you uncomfortable ..unfettered freedom to access firearms being anathema to you.
But far to be preferred then the slow death of twenty thousand cuts
Any chance you would be willing to increase your font, them werds wif leters be a tad small they are. nuff to driver a feller of thee deepend
A tad is smaller than a bit, but larger than a fuzz
That is how I see it. My opinion plus a dollar will buy a cup of coffee...
Hey TR you give me a headache
Any chance you would be willing to increase your font, them werds wif leters be a tad small they are. nuff to driver a feller of thee deepend
A tad is smaller than a bit, but larger than a fuzz
A fair and honest request. But I believe I am using the same fonts and size as everyone else. Isn't it possible for you to configure your computer to display the words and letters in a larger size?
I may well be wrong..but I think he refers to the 'quote'..and if so, the solution is to drop back a post or two and read it full size.
I believe you are correct.