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I have a question
crash2usaf
Member Posts: 4,094
In Illinois we do not allow concealed carry, and certainly not in schools. I am going to a community college a few miles away from NIU, a friend of mine helped to break up a scuffle, during the fight he noticed that an object very similar to that of a handgun fell out of the waistband of one of the fellers, he scooped it back up and ran off. Now this happened about a half hour before I got to school, and there is a gang presence in dekalb and surrounding areas. My question is should I start packing a small sig p239 in my bookbag before I come to school?
Comments
So who here thinks it is worth the risk?
The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, the officer who arrests you, and the judge at your trial will have different opinions. Their opinions will carry more weight than yours.
Some are of the opinon that income tax is illegal, and they don't pay. You know how that works out for them.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
My answer is;
Each man must make his own decision.and live by the consequences that develop.
YOU PERSONALLY must decide if your safety is more important then the resultant endless stream of condemnation from society.and many gun-owners, also.as they whine about how `you drag GOOD people down into the mudd'.as they admit tacitly that they themselves have not the courage to resist, even covertly.and most likely wouldn't resist an armed criminal, ANYWAY.
The brutal facts are.if you carry, and are discovered ..kiss your education goodbye ..be prepared for either tens of thousands of dollars fighting the charge.or a quite possible extended stay with Bubba.and the loss permanently of what is laughingly called your "Gun Rights" by people that should be smart enough to see the difference between `Rights' and `privilege'.but aren't.
And tech, if I had the means to move I would...
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
You have expressed your opinions to me and others before. How many times have you stood before a judge while in shackles and expressed your opinions to that judge? And what happened after you expressed your opinions? Was the judge and prosecuter suddenly swayed to your way of thinking and they immediately released you from custody?
Or, it more likely you have never had your idealistic ideas actually bump into reality and be tested in the real world?
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
You have expressed your opinions to me and others before. How many times have you stood before a judge while in shackles and expressed your opinions to that judge? And what happened after you expressed your opinions? Was the judge and prosecuter suddenly swayed to your way of thinking and they immediately released you from custody?
Or, it more likely you have never had your idealistic ideas actually bump into reality and be tested in the real world?
Up to this point, I've not been caught doing anything objectionable, but my point of view was pivotal in getting custody of my kid. There was a lot of discussion about my firearms in that, all was drudged up specifically to make me look like a crazed latent killer. It didn't fly.
So, let me turn the table on this, and see if you understand this new point of view. If you die, none of this matters to you anymore. If you live, you can still fight for freedom. I've fought against all odds once, already, and emerged victorious. I have no problem doing it again if I must. Only when I am dead, will death force me from the fight. How about you???
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
You have expressed your opinions to me and others before. How many times have you stood before a judge while in shackles and expressed your opinions to that judge? And what happened after you expressed your opinions? Was the judge and prosecuter suddenly swayed to your way of thinking and they immediately released you from custody?
Or, it more likely you have never had your idealistic ideas actually bump into reality and be tested in the real world?
Up to this point, I've not been caught doing anything objectionable, but my point of view was pivotal in getting custody of my kid. There was a lot of discussion about my firearms in that, all was drudged up specifically to make me look like a crazed latent killer. It didn't fly.
So, let me turn the table on this, and see if you understand this new point of view. If you die, none of this matters to you anymore. If you live, you can still fight for freedom. I've fought against all odds once, already, and emerged victorious. I have no problem doing it again if I must. Only when I am dead, will death force me from the fight. How about you???
Unlike some, I would not change what I say/have said even if I was standing as the accused, in courtroom, and my freedom depended upon what I said.
Why ever would you change what you said ? You parrot the government line..that ensures your complete safty.
Wonder if you would say the same thing before a court of Founders ?You know..the ones you spit on ?
Course..you would STILL be safe. Just held up as a fine example of what the Founders warned against.
quote:Unlike some, I would not change what I say/have said even if I was standing as the accused, in courtroom, and my freedom depended upon what I said.
Why ever would you change what you said ? You parrot the government line..that ensures your complete safty.
Wonder if you would say the same thing before a court of Founders ?You know..the ones you spit on ?
Course..you would STILL be safe. Just held up as a fine example of what the Founders warned against.
Geez S. Crist Highball. Can't you see how radical you have become? You know damn good and well I do not go around "spitting" on people (in red above).
Please come back to planet reasonable and rational and maybe then we can talk.
Or not.
When you read the words of the founders, yet still insist that the government has the right and duty to restrict firearms.what then would YOU call it ?
Your continuing, unceasing attacks upon those of us insisting that the Second says what it means, and means what it says ..snide little remarks you cleverly feel will slip right thru the ribs without anyone but you being the wiser.
What do you call THAT ?
Radical ????
Thank you kindly, Sir.
That is EXACTLY the term used to describe the Founders..by Loyalists/Subjects/ and the Kings Men.
"Spitting upon" is a figurative term.
Or not.
When you read the words of the founders, yet still insist that the government has the right and duty to restrict firearms.what then would YOU call it ?
Your continuing, unceasing attacks upon those of us insisting that the Second says what it means, and means what it says ..snide little remarks you cleverly feel will slip right thru the ribs without anyone but you being the wiser.
What do you call THAT ?
Radical ????
Thank you kindly, Sir.
That is EXACTLY the term used to describe the Founders..by Loyalists/Subjects/ and the Kings Men.
Sign.....................OK, if it makes you feel better Highball.
From that moment on..there is no quarter asked...and none given.
You took the gloves off awhile back...with your comparing we that support the Constitution to the Islomofascists that roam the earth.
From that moment on..there is no quarter asked...and none given.
I don't recall making any comparsion quite like that. But in your angry, paranoid mind I am sure you believe I did. So continue to believe it since it seems to please you so much.
quote:tr foxAdvanced Member USA10715 Posts Posted - 03/15/2008 : 2:54:02 PM
quote: Yep, in some people's mind, gentlemenly disagreement is fine. Until you disagree with something they don't want you to disagree about. Kinda like the Taliban and Islam.
20,000 ++++ gunlaws..another passed a couple weeks ago with the invaluble aid of the NRA...and I an 'angry, paranoid ?"
Yeah..I expect ANY American to be ANGRY...and a bit MORE then paranoid .
How about YOU ?
I don't recall making any comparsion quite like that.
Looks like that is EXACTLY the comparison you made.
Is your recall clearing a bit?
This is just one of several..I have no intention of re-reading all your priceless pearls you have cast before swine....
quote:tr foxAdvanced Member USA10715 Posts Posted - 03/15/2008 : 2:54:02 PM
quote: Yep, in some people's mind, gentlemenly disagreement is fine. Until you disagree with something they don't want you to disagree about. Kinda like the Taliban and Islam.
20,000 ++++ gunlaws..another passed a couple weeks ago with the invaluble aid of the NRA...and I an 'angry, paranoid ?"
Yeah..I expect ANY American to be ANGRY...and a bit MORE then paranoid .
How about YOU ?
So, Highball (and others) apparently decided to voluntarily include themselves into the red above. And after they smear themselves with that criticism, Highball and Pickenup come back and blame me? Typical.
At least I have taken the high road for not having whined like a baby when Highball and others have DIRECTLY called me a "government bootlicker, a traitor, a turncoat", and on and on.
So go ahead and whine you babies.
Seems about right.
As far as me and others 'whining' about things you say ..You mistake outrage for whimpering.
Whimpering being what you NRA types do on a regular basis, as your heroes in the government and NRA saddle you with more regulations.
(But I don't WANT my name revealed in the paper as a CCW holder) wahhhh.
This is a fine example also about just how cleaver you think you are.
"So, Highball (and others) apparently decided to voluntarily include themselves into the red above. And after they smear themselves with that criticism, Highball and Pickenup come back and blame me? Typical."
Stick a knife in our ribs ..then simper about it wasn't ' meant for us.'
Sure.
I believe you, Fox ..really, I do.
Not.
But then ..that is what one has come to expect from the NRA in general.and mad-dog supporters in particular.
Once again ..in spite of the hard words between us ..you have the option.
Support the Constitution ..support the Second Amendment.
You are not arguing with ME. You are denouncing the Founders as you support governmental controls and the NRA.
Here is your quandary. The Law of the land states that you cannot carry in Illinois with out some pretty draconian sucking up, or not for any reason. Your worried about protecting your self and think that despite the law(or rather in spite of the law) a firearm is the option that you should choose. A couple of points to make here with out getting off of your question. I've been teaching combat handgunning as a self-defence method for a couple of decades and I DO live in a state that lets you carry a firearm if you want to. Matter of fact, I'm right next door to your east.
Now with Thirty + years of Military, Law Enforcement and civilian contracting experience, guess what is my particular self defence choice?
Guy, I'm not trying to tell you your business here, but sometimes a firearm is NOT the best choice. You can what if possible situations here to death, ( such as "What if the guy is shooting at me from distance?" answer: DUCK and RUN!)but as a couple of folks here who actually took the time to address your question mentioned, the book bag is a BAD IDEA. Lots of reasons. For the folks out there who have actually carried for any length of time will tell you, carrying a gun is a pain in the *! At best, I would carry my Airweight, because it would not jam, had a big enough round to stop some one, and did not weigh a freaking ton. This is a consideration if you are serious and are going to do this, because if you don't think about these things, you will buy a cannon, carry it for a while, get tired of the damn thing, and leave it in your vehicle or your sock drawer. Might as well still be on the shelf at the gun shop. The aforementioned preference is legal where you live, and with a little training at a local qualified martial arts dojo, can be WAY more effective than that gun that you will soon get sick of carrying, and you CAN make carrying the cutter a habit.
Brother, each his own, not to tell you your business, but I'd rather see you in at least a loin cloth than completely naked.
Dave
I'm in a similar situation. I have a CCW permit, but I don't carry on campus due to the risk of getting caught. I know someone who does on occasion.
The way I figure, I have several thousand dollars invested in my education......I'd lose it all if I got caught packing.
To me, it ain't worth it
I'm now a college professor and even with the CCW here in Indiana, the Feds say NO on campus! Sure as hell didn't help those poor students at those other schools. Still doesn't mean I won't shank someones * if they move on me or mine.
Don't have to like it, do have to abide by it. Otherwise I'm part of the problem.
For all of you big talkers out there, that's your right. I served so you can. * all you want about this country's laws, but either get active and change them, abide by them, get caught breaking them and go to jail, or move your * somewhere else. There is no fifth way.
By all means, burn off some passion here, but I'd rather see you take that fire to your congressman..........Keep those pukes honest.
Dave
Well''it took a couple posts for you to reveal how little you know. Carry on....
The issue is that there is an ever increasing presence of bangers at this community college... The majority of them are there for educational purposes or so I hope, but a few I feel are packing and don't have the best intentions... I was just looking for a little advice...
My conclusion is to carry an asp... If I am close enough to use it, I'll at least have something, if I'm not close enough to use it then most likely I will have other options... If I get caught with it then it is more explainable than a gun, and less threatening in the eyes of a nervous courtroom in the same county as the NIU shooting...
Besides an asp used effectively with surprise can do what I need to without the complications....
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
In the meantime, YOU'RE DEAD!
quote:I think that it is an illegal law and should not be followed,
An illegal law is no law at all.
Use to carry an ASP while on the Department. Great intimidator and a reasonably decent defence tool. Be careful with it though. Some jurisdictions consider a strike to the head with one to be lethal force. Common peroneal shots to the outer thigh work well and bad guys have a hard time chasing you if they are on the ground unable to get up.
I personally liked chemical sprays myself for self defence. The downside of them is that you have to be prepared to eat a little if after you deploy it, you are in contact with your subject. Also talked to a few of my old department buddies about the Tazers that they now carry. Kind of a specialty item for specific situations. A little too gadgety for me. (Or maybe I'm getting old)
What ever option that you pick, please get a little training on it. You don't have to be a black belt to be effective. As to the Bangers on campus, We just got started with our Community College system here in Indiana about four years ago and I have not seen major influxes of those types of vermin, but I spoke with a colleague who taught in the Carbondale area and he mentioned the problem was worse in Illinois. What to do about them, do I wish I knew. I have been a Criminal Justice professional for many years and some of our best and brightest are struggling with that problem all over the world. Take each day as a blessing and each day as a risk and do your best. Good as it gets.
Dave
In Illinois we do not allow concealed carry, and certainly not in schools. I am going to a community college a few miles away from NIU, a friend of mine helped to break up a scuffle, during the fight he noticed that an object very similar to that of a handgun fell out of the waistband of one of the fellers, he scooped it back up and ran off. Now this happened about a half hour before I got to school, and there is a gang presence in dekalb and surrounding areas. My question is should I start packing a small sig p239 in my bookbag before I come to school?
NO! That's illegal.
You should go apply for a concealed carry permit. When you are refused, you should then file a lawsuit claiming infringement of your 2nd Amendment rights and you should carry your suit to the SCOTUS. Get lots and lots of your friends (especially lawyers and journalists) to do the same and make a class action suit out of it.