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Collectivism -vs- Individualism Rant
n/a
Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
The below topic was related to the concept of a government ban on smoking and a debate over such government actions....
quote:Originally posted by (it doesn't matter who):
"I realize most people on this topic are not going to agree with me.
We live in a civilized society. In such a society, since Utopia does not exist, there needs to be some rules and regulations. I am for as little gov't regulation as need be, but there are some fields that do need regulation.
What is the FDA doing? They regulate what we eat and how it is presented to us. Do they do bad things? Would we be better off without them? If it were not for them, how much lead would China be shipping over in everything we buy? How bad would the food be health-wise?
Should Heroin, Cocaine, and other drugs be legal as well? They used to be.
If we follow the path many of you want with no gov't interference, can you imagine the society we would have - well wait, you can see that - just look at Afganistan or most of Africa. Lawless areas where anything and everything is legal. So yes, we could have that type of society, but you sure wouldn't want to live there.
In matters where there is no fine line about the worth(lessness) of a product, I stick to my guns and vote to outlaw it."
__________________________________________________________
Response and rant.....
You again make the "collectivist" argument.
Following the principals of our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our "founding concepts" of limited government and individualism is not "utopia", it is what America was founded to be.
Equating governing under constitutional principals with life in "Afghanistan", or "Africa", is ludicrous at best.
As to being better off without certain government regulatory agencies, in this case the FDA, they are not authorized under the Constitution and yes, we would be far better off without them.
Living in a free society is a frightening concept to many, particularly those who want to see other citizens have their personal choices controlled or regulated, for whatever reasons.
Therein lays our dilemma.
Rant on....
Collectivism stands opposite the founding principals of America, our Constitutional Republic and the Bill of Rights, period.
I see nobody here arguing for Anarchy, which is the opposite of Totalitarianism.
Individualism is what America was founded on and what our government was instituted to protect.
Our Constitution was instituted to protect individual rights and strictly limit what power the people delegated to the government.
The Bill of Rights was written to enumerate unalienable/God-given/Natural Rights, which the government was absolutely PROHIBITED from infringing upon.
Individualism recognizes the need for basic societal rules, but rejects the restriction of individual freedom for "the greater good" arguments and theory....always.
Individualism rejects the idea of "groups" and "legislating" morality, health, welfare, equality and behavior.
Individualism espouses equal treatment under the law, not "special treatment" for groups or segments of society forced upon everyone else BY the law.
Collectivism inevitably leads to Totalitarianism, always.
This is due to continual regulation and continual "law-making" until nothing is left to the individual.
It is the inevitable destination of collectivist thinking and governance, always. This is a simple concept, but many fail to get it, or simply believe opposite.
Regardless, America was founded to foster and support the "individualist" philosophy. This has steadily been eroded by government and now, collectivism is increasingly being championed by large majorities of the people, primarily through the by-product of continual government education and incremental government action over the past many generations, e.g. "conditioning".
There is simply a fundamental difference in the understandings, beliefs and psyche of individualists and collectivists......the "freedom-minded" -vs- the "dependency/control/group-minded".
Thus, we are witness to the continuing fall of Free-America.
Nothing will change it without a return to the principals of our founding, period....end of story. We all know that THAT scenario is not likely to happen.
We will all continue to bicker back and forth about minutia and the "lesser of two evils", all the while the Republic WILL continue to die.
Rant off....
Does anyone see this as the basic cause of America's ills and our decline?
If not, what do you attribute our decline to?
Do you even acknowledge a decline of America?
Frustration rules the Lt......[V][V]
quote:Originally posted by (it doesn't matter who):
"I realize most people on this topic are not going to agree with me.
We live in a civilized society. In such a society, since Utopia does not exist, there needs to be some rules and regulations. I am for as little gov't regulation as need be, but there are some fields that do need regulation.
What is the FDA doing? They regulate what we eat and how it is presented to us. Do they do bad things? Would we be better off without them? If it were not for them, how much lead would China be shipping over in everything we buy? How bad would the food be health-wise?
Should Heroin, Cocaine, and other drugs be legal as well? They used to be.
If we follow the path many of you want with no gov't interference, can you imagine the society we would have - well wait, you can see that - just look at Afganistan or most of Africa. Lawless areas where anything and everything is legal. So yes, we could have that type of society, but you sure wouldn't want to live there.
In matters where there is no fine line about the worth(lessness) of a product, I stick to my guns and vote to outlaw it."
__________________________________________________________
Response and rant.....
You again make the "collectivist" argument.
Following the principals of our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our "founding concepts" of limited government and individualism is not "utopia", it is what America was founded to be.
Equating governing under constitutional principals with life in "Afghanistan", or "Africa", is ludicrous at best.
As to being better off without certain government regulatory agencies, in this case the FDA, they are not authorized under the Constitution and yes, we would be far better off without them.
Living in a free society is a frightening concept to many, particularly those who want to see other citizens have their personal choices controlled or regulated, for whatever reasons.
Therein lays our dilemma.
Rant on....
Collectivism stands opposite the founding principals of America, our Constitutional Republic and the Bill of Rights, period.
I see nobody here arguing for Anarchy, which is the opposite of Totalitarianism.
Individualism is what America was founded on and what our government was instituted to protect.
Our Constitution was instituted to protect individual rights and strictly limit what power the people delegated to the government.
The Bill of Rights was written to enumerate unalienable/God-given/Natural Rights, which the government was absolutely PROHIBITED from infringing upon.
Individualism recognizes the need for basic societal rules, but rejects the restriction of individual freedom for "the greater good" arguments and theory....always.
Individualism rejects the idea of "groups" and "legislating" morality, health, welfare, equality and behavior.
Individualism espouses equal treatment under the law, not "special treatment" for groups or segments of society forced upon everyone else BY the law.
Collectivism inevitably leads to Totalitarianism, always.
This is due to continual regulation and continual "law-making" until nothing is left to the individual.
It is the inevitable destination of collectivist thinking and governance, always. This is a simple concept, but many fail to get it, or simply believe opposite.
Regardless, America was founded to foster and support the "individualist" philosophy. This has steadily been eroded by government and now, collectivism is increasingly being championed by large majorities of the people, primarily through the by-product of continual government education and incremental government action over the past many generations, e.g. "conditioning".
There is simply a fundamental difference in the understandings, beliefs and psyche of individualists and collectivists......the "freedom-minded" -vs- the "dependency/control/group-minded".
Thus, we are witness to the continuing fall of Free-America.
Nothing will change it without a return to the principals of our founding, period....end of story. We all know that THAT scenario is not likely to happen.
We will all continue to bicker back and forth about minutia and the "lesser of two evils", all the while the Republic WILL continue to die.
Rant off....
Does anyone see this as the basic cause of America's ills and our decline?
If not, what do you attribute our decline to?
Do you even acknowledge a decline of America?
Frustration rules the Lt......[V][V]