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Anybody load .38 special for 148gr wad cutters?

wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
edited October 2011 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
Looking for some insight, I'd like to use WW 231 to keep the number of powders I reload with down. I can't find any data in the books I've got and am looking for suggestions or help, also wondering if anybody has worked up any "cat's whisper" or "gallery" loads. Thanks for the help guys.
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Comments

  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Start WW-231 at 3.5grs. up to 4.0gr.
    The 3.5 load is about 850fps. 4.0 is about 950fps.
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  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,440 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    W231 will work fine. Just add a 2-3 tenths to any Bullseye recipe and you'll be in the ballpark. You'll find two different recipes depending on whether the bullets are bevel-based or hollow-based. Most commercial wadcutters today are double-ended bevel-base designs so you can load them either way up. Bevel-base bullets can use a bit more powder than the cupped/hollow based ones. Strive for somewhere in the 750 to 800 fps range, and just accept the fact that they are 50-yard max loads.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I used to shoot a lot of .38 wadcutters for PPC.
    Speer 148 gr HBWC + 3.2 gr Win 231
    About 700 fps or a bit more in long barrels.
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  • wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    Start WW-231 at 3.5grs. up to 4.0gr.
    The 3.5 load is about 850fps. 4.0 is about 950fps.


    Thanks,is that for bevel base or hollow base?
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  • wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    W231 will work fine. Just add a 2-3 tenths to any Bullseye recipe and you'll be in the ballpark. You'll find two different recipes depending on whether the bullets are bevel-based or hollow-based. Most commercial wadcutters today are double-ended bevel-base designs so you can load them either way up. Bevel-base bullets can use a bit more powder than the cupped/hollow based ones. Strive for somewhere in the 750 to 800 fps range, and just accept the fact that they are 50-yard max loads.


    That's what I'm looking for. I have a bit of nerve damage and scar tissue in my right arm and I just bought a Ruger Sp101 3" and am looking for a paper punching, rabbit killing load that doesn't punish. AND, a load that would be pretty quiet out of a Ruger 77/357!
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  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,440 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To answer on behalf of Hawk, his load is for a HollowBase Wad Cutter (HBWC). You may also find loads for the Double-Ended WadCutter (DEWC) that I mentioned. If those are what you have, you can begin with Hawk's excellent load and nudge it up gradually to 4.0 grains of W231. Loads that are too light might stick in that Ruger 77's longer barrel. (They make a 77 in 357?)

    Here's a typical DEWC. Note the crimping grooves at either end. They can have one or two lube grooves in between, and both ends are slightly bevelled.

    DEWC.jpg
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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  • WinMikeWinMike Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With all due respect, if you can't find W231 data, you need to get one more load manual! W231 has been a go-to powder for lead bullets for years.

    From my Lee (1996) manual: 3 gr - 3.4 gr. (760 fps, 16400 psi):

    " " Hornady (7th ed): 2.2 gr (550 fps) up to 3.5 gr. (800 fps);

    " " WW (1985+) pamphlets: 3.1 gr. (800 fps, 11,000 CUP),
    3.6 gr. (910 fps, 14,500 CUP);

    Lyman (3rd Ed, 2004,'08) (150 gr) 3.7 gr (872 fps, 12,700 CUP),
    4.2 gr. (942 fps, 16,200 CUP)

    and so on. Except for the proprietary powder manufacturers' publications, every reloading manual I own has a W231 recipe. Most of the loads show the above recipes can be used for all types of wadcutters.

    Looks like the light loads in the Hornady manual would provide your gallery loads.

    You'll note the disparaties in load info. For example, WW says 3.6 gr. is 910 fps, 14,500 CUP, while Lyman suggests 3.7 (1/10 more for a .2 gr heavier bullet) gr. will only provide 872 fps, 12,700 CUP! No doubt the reason is different firearms, different barrels, different receivers.

    Or....just different. Another reason why I have so many manuals and check them against each other!
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  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,440 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Equally likely to be differences in bullets, Mike. As mentioned, there's a definite difference between flat-based and hollow-based wadcutters. Then there's seating depth. Some wadcutters are seated flush with the case mouth and some stick out a bit due to the crimp groove. Even of the same type, different alloys or diameters would account for what you pointed out.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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  • wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by WinMike
    With all due respect, if you can't find W231 data, you need to get one more load manual! W231 has been a go-to powder for lead bullets for years.

    Sir,the manuals I've got have data for WW 231, just not for the same weight wad cutters or it's for hollow back wad cutters. I'm just not that adventurous with reloading at this point, I like to be real specific. I've seen what mistakes can do when an old timer convinced my brother-in-law and me to shoot an old .303 he had. My brother-in-law was spotting when the gun blew up and he got blasted with bits and pieces of the bolt in his arm and I'm just thankful it didn't go back in my face. Soo... No hotshot reloading for me.
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  • wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    To answer on behalf of Hawk, his load is for a HollowBase Wad Cutter (HBWC). You may also find loads for the Double-Ended WadCutter (DEWC) that I mentioned. If those are what you have, you can begin with Hawk's excellent load and nudge it up gradually to 4.0 grains of W231. Loads that are too light might stick in that Ruger 77's longer barrel. (They make a 77 in 357?)

    Here's a typical DEWC. Note the crimping grooves at either end. They can have one or two lube grooves in between, and both ends are slightly bevelled.

    DEWC.jpg



    Yes, they make a Ruger 77/357! It's based of the 77/22 mag, there is also a 77/44. I like to own guns of the same caliber like a Sp101, Gp100, and the 77/357. A carbine in .357, I couldn't resist.

    What would the OAL be? Should I just seat it to the crimp lines and start from there?
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  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    Start WW-231 at 3.5grs. up to 4.0gr.
    The 3.5 load is about 850fps. 4.0 is about 950fps.


    This load is for the DEWC. Use the crimp groove with it.
    Feeding in the 77/357 might be a problem with the blunt bullet.
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  • wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    Start WW-231 at 3.5grs. up to 4.0gr.
    The 3.5 load is about 850fps. 4.0 is about 950fps.


    This load is for the DEWC. Use the crimp groove with it.
    Fedding in the 77/357 might be a problem with the blunt bullet.


    Thanks for the help, that should give me a place to start. I'll probably just load one at at time, but load should work well in revolvers.
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  • woodchuckjohnwoodchuckjohn Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    231 shoots well in my guns and I like it because it is clean burning and the gun is easily cleaned.
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  • DresserDanDresserDan Member Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does any of thses loads work in a S&W 52 WC?I do'nt know for sure how hot a person can load a S&W52.I am sure that a person does'nt want to load them like for a revolver but I do'nt know what the max is for that gun.
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  • WinMikeWinMike Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm a revolver guy, but have always been sort of fascinated by the Mdl 52. So I Googled your question, and came up with these threads:

    http://www.pelhamfishandgame.com/reloading/45/38_loads.htm

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_49/ai_97170894/

    http://www.loaddata.com/members/listing.cfm?caliber=.38&caliberid=20

    Plus I found a bunch of info in my various load manuals. Start with Lyman's Pistol/Revolver info and work your way out. Sounds like 3.2-3.5 gr. of 231 would work fine.

    And I bet Rocky will chime in here with his expertise.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    My girlfriend claims I'm stalking her. Well, OK, she's not technically my girlfriend.....yet.
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  • DresserDanDresserDan Member Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the links.That first one has a lot of good info for the S&W 52.
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  • wildeman.7.62natowildeman.7.62nato Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey, part of the problem has been the difference in reloading manuals! I didn't realize that older manuals had loads 10% or more higher than current books. Newer books show max pressure near the mid point on older books.
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  • WinMikeWinMike Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Huge difference; for example, my Lyman books have dropped a maximum load of Unique 150 wadcutter from 5.5 gr. in 1970 to 4.2 (2004) and ?? currently?

    More knowledgeable loaders than I can explain better, but I understand part of it is legal issues, part better measuring of pressures.

    I think what it really means is that you have a fairly wide latitude for your Mdl 52, which means you get the chance to do a lot of experimenting to find the load that will work the action and be accurate as well.

    Look on it as a fun project!
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