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R700 varmit vs. Tactical??

fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
edited January 2012 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
ok so i am looking to buy a new R700 sps just not sure what one to buy.

1. SPS varmit 26" heavy barrel
2. SPS tactical 20" barrel

the only main diff i can find is the barrel length, and about .5lb diff in weight. either will be a .308win.

can some plz advise any main reason why one or the other. will one hold a better out of the moa than the other? accuracy is my only goal

the barrel length does not matter long or short to me. it will only be a paper puncher to 600yrds with handloading. After good use either will be fully trued, aftermarket match barrel, so on.

thanks
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Comments

  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems to me there is a twist difference which is REALLY critical for your bullet choice and they type of shooting you want to do. The tactical should have a 1-9" twist, the varmint might have a 1-9" but probably has a 1-12".

    I would get the tighter twist as you can shoot lighter bullets with it. There are some drawbacks but none to worry about unless you try taking long shots with light bullets.

    With a 1-9" twist you should be able to stabilize 75 HP and A-max bullets and Sierra/Nosler 77 gr. bullets.

    EDIT:

    ^OOPS!^ I was thinking .223 obviously.[:0]

    The difference between the two is how far do you want to shoot? If like long range get the longer barrel. You can reload to get more velocity out of it. The shorter barrel is pretty much for manueverability, while getting close to the same velocity in standard match ammunition.
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  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well ^ idk what you looked at but both chambered in .308 have 1:12 twist. that is what really has me ?ing what one to get

    on loads i wil prob look in the range of 150 smk,168 smk,175 smk


    varmit
    http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx

    tactical
    http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx
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  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yea i know i can get more velocity, however i know good amount of guys on a 20" shorty kick and still kicking out to 6-700yrds with them.

    i will prob end up with the longer varmit
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The difference is a 1000 or a 1200 yd. gun. I know guys who shoot 20" to 1k. But...with a lot more trajectory. Most of the guys I know also shoot 1-10" twists which will help the stability of a bullet going through transonic.

    With the 1-12" twist you're optimized at 168-175 gr. However, Lapua makes this little gem called the 155 Scenar. Very slippery, stays supersonic as long as the 175's at equal velocity and, best of all, remains pretty stable through the transonic range. One of the guys I shot with out in Nevada (keep in mind it's 4000 ft. elevation) can't keep his rounds supersonic out to one mile in the winter, but can in the summer. Video of them shows them falling all over the place in about 20 degrees. In summertime they were hitting right at the target.
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  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    very true but if i was trying for 1k+ i would step to the 338L. yea i use the lupua bullets in my sako .308 LOVES them.
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fl23in
    very true but if i was trying for 1k+ i would step to the 338L. yea i use the lupua bullets in my sako .308 LOVES them.


    I wouldn't jump up to the .338 unless you wanted to go 2k+. Anything between 1k and 2k is best handled by a 7mm magnum. I've shot my 7mm-08 very accurately to one mile at altitude. It certainly won't reach that far accurately down at sea level but it's definitely a 1k+ gun at sea level.
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  • skyfishskyfish Member Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If your punching paper, go long. I feel they are easier to shoot, sometimes the short barrel feel squirly. Can't hold as stable. But that's me. Also, why give up the velocity if you don't have to. If you are only shooting to 600, the 155 class bullets would be my choice.
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    fl23in,

    The only real difference between these two rifles is the stocks. The barrel lengths are of little consequence when tasked for your needs and the actions are the same. The stocks however, are both garbage and will not be conducive to the accuracy that you seek. Remington stocks have been cheapened continuously for years and these are the worst yet.

    The varmint is nothing but an injection molded shell which will warp and twist with temperature changes. It lacks any form of rigidity. The so-called 'tactical' is nearly as bad. The forearm is not rigid and the pillar bedding is a joke. It's just another Hogue POS.

    I suggest re-evaluating your choices and look for a slightly used, but much better platform for your shooting. You might even be better off finding a barreled action, then locating a stock suited to the type of target shooting you want to do. Sometimes this is nearly the same price as buying something new but the goodies have been done already so you have a better rifle from the start.

    Good Luck with your choices.

    Best.
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  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 17,197 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spend a little more and get the 700 LTR. It comes with the HS Precision stock, a 20" fluted barrel, and a second stud at the front end for mounting a bi-pod. I had the action on mine glass bedded and a little trigger work done and it's accuracy never fails to amaze me (when I do my part!). Topped it with a Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50. My wife actuall shoots it better than I do. I've watched her put five rounds in what appeared to be the same hole at 100 yards with Federal Gold Match 168gr. I've never really tried to stretch it to 5 or 600 yards but have no doubt it would perform nicely given it's 100 yard capabilities. Whatever you wind up with, don't scrimp on the optics or mounts.
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  • 62fuelie62fuelie Member Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally, the "tactical" was brought out because law enforcement was using the varmint model for SWAT purposes. It did what was asked of it with reliability and precision, BUT the long barrel was harder to move with and wasn't really needed for most LE purposes. Most LE shots are under 200 yards. Most work very well with such loads as the Federal 168 GMM or the Hornady 155 TAP. The stocks can certainly be upgraded with a good pillar bedding system. It is up to you to decide which barrel will best suit your needs.
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  • fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nononscense--- i am not buying for the stock by any stretch. i am mainly buying cause i have choice to buy both at resonable price. I am very aware of the stocks being JUNK. I will be dropping either one into a B&C medalist varmit/tac FOR NOW. then move up to a AI. than once it make ME shoot better i will have the action Completely gone thru and trued and have a tighter Pg&T bolt, and other stuff
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    fl23in,

    I wasn't trying to be contention. I was simply trying to help by adding information that might not have considered.

    Let's read this once again:

    quote:ok so i am looking to buy a new R700 sps just not sure what one to buy.

    1. SPS varmit 26" heavy barrel
    2. SPS tactical 20" barrel

    the only main diff i can find is the barrel length, and about .5lb diff in weight. either will be a .308win.

    can some plz advise any main reason why one or the other. will one hold a better out of the moa than the other? accuracy is my only goal

    the barrel length does not matter long or short to me. it will only be a paper puncher to 600yrds with handloading. After good use either will be fully trued, aftermarket match barrel, so on.

    thanks

    Your statement is that the only difference is the barrel length, no mention of stocks.

    Then:

    quote:I am very aware of the stocks being JUNK. I will be dropping either one into a B&C medalist varmit/tac FOR NOW. then move up to a AI.

    Again no statement to the effect about knowing the lack of quality or any suggestion that you planned to upgrade. We try real hard not to read minds or read into what you write. The more information you supply us, the better the responses.

    I think that the Bell and Carlson #1100 stock is a much better choice for the barreled actions you are asking about than either of those supplied with the original models. However, there is the suggestion to look at the Remington LTR model which features the HS Precision stock with the bedding block. The price works out to be just about the same.

    Before spending nearly $1,000.00 (or more) on an AI stock, I suggest trying one to see how the fit is with your hands. Many of us bought these stocks on the hype when they first appeared here in America and then promptly sold them off when the fit was found to be awful. Some folks really like them but trying one first is a good bet.

    If you do find that the AI is little less than you anticipated, you can take a look at Tom Manner's MCS T5 or T5A stock made with carbon fiber and the best fit I found with a thumbhole.

    mcst5.jpg

    Tom also makes the same model with the bedding block combined with the drop box magazine feature:

    mcst5dbm.jpg

    This is the model I use for competitions because I can take several barreled actions with me and switch them in just a couple of minutes without a barrel vise.

    If you are still considering blueprinting the M700 action and adding Pacific Tool and Gauge bolt along with the custom barrel, I suggest looking at one of the better 'custom' action currently available on the market. By the time you add in all the extras on top of the blueprinting, you can have a custom action with a good barrel right from the start.

    Best.
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  • BIG ALBIG AL Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I bought my wife a SPS 308 for shooting 300 yards using 155 gr. jhpb
    with 42 grs. of IMR 8208. It would not shoot the same everytime.
    Had the gunsmith take the barrel off and found out the chamber was not round and no crown.
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  • HawkshawHawkshaw Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    fl23in
    Lots of good info to consider, BUT I'm not sure I would put a lot of money in a project that is centered aroun a SPS Bbl. It might be great, but mabey not. To be specific about your guestion of Bbl. lenght
    With every thing being equal, the shorter Bbl. will usually be the more accurate, do to the reduced movement of the Bbl due to Bbl. harmonics during firing. The shorter Bbl., is effectively "stiffer", than the longer one, by some amount. That stiffness tends to ensure that the Bbl. will be in the same place when the bullet exits the muzzle, from shot to shot. Remember this stm't. is "when every thing being equal" HAWKSHAW
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