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A little confused........

Getting into this long range shooting a little more and have a scope question........

Does the Leupold VX-iii 4.5-14x40 Long Range, turret adjustments track in MOA or IPHY?

Mine just says 1 click is 1/4 inch at 100 yards....which I thought was 4 clicks equals 1 MOA....now if that is the case what is the (Inch Per Hundred Yards) IPHY for and does it apply to my scope.....Thanks in advance.

Reason I ask is Im playing with some more ballistics software and it has corrections for both MOA and IPHY.

Comments

  • the middlethe middle Member Posts: 3,089
    edited November -1
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    An MOA is about an inch PER 100 yards or close enough for it to not make any difference.
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A minute of angle is so close to an inch per hundred yards as to make no practical difference.
    Stretch out to 1000 yards, ten hundreds, and one MOA is less than 10 1/2 inches.

    Somebody was being cute with their software.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Picture a circle where the shooter is the center, and the target is at the very edge of the circumference. Now divide that into degrees and minutes. For a circle at 100 yards, 1 minute of one degree is equal to almost exactly one inch, hence the term minute of angle.
  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    I understand what a MOA is and how to adjust for it... what has me confused is weather or not my scope adjusts in MOA or in IPHY...
    at 1000 yards with my rifle and load in the conditions where i am at, this new program calls for 20.5 MOA (82 clicks) or 21.5 IPHY, that would change point of impact 10 inches or so (At 1000) depending on weather my scope adjusts in MOA or IPHY.. (I think)

    I know I just need to go shoot and determine my actual drop and see if its closer to MOA or IPHY.

    The program is "Shooter" and Im shooting a Berger 210 vld using Brian Litz g7 BC data.

    Was just wondering if anybody had ran into this before and what they decided.
  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If your scope says right on it that "1 click equals 1/4 inch at 100 yards", then my bet would be that the adjustment is in inches.
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:new program calls for 20.5 MOA (82 clicks) or 21.5 IPHY, that would change point of impact 10 inches or so (At 1000)

    Sounds strange.
    A POI change of 10 inches at 1000 yards is EXACTLY 10 IPHY (or very close to 9.55 MOA) so I don't know where the program is getting 21.5.
  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
    quote:new program calls for 20.5 MOA (82 clicks) or 21.5 IPHY, that would change point of impact 10 inches or so (At 1000)

    Sounds strange.
    A POI change of 10 inches at 1000 yards is EXACTLY 10 IPHY (or very close to 9.55 MOA) so I don't know where the program is getting 21.5.


    im sorry it was my thinking that came up with the 10 inches... I was thinking that 1 moa at 1000 yards was 10 inches. the program calls for 20.5 moa of elevation ajustment or 21.5 IPHY adjustment....a difference of 4 clicks which is where I came up with the 10 inches..... and where my confusion begins.......ill just have to go shoot and see i guess... I have been building my drop charts in moa so I hope thats right[^]
  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I must be missing something here. 4 clicks of your scope will change the point of impact 1" (approximately) @ 100 yds., 2" @ 200 yds., 3" @ 300 yds., and 10" @ 1,000 yds. Your example of 20.5 MOA or 21.5 IPHY (BTW, I have not heard/seen IPHY used in ballistics before.) would be about 17.5 FEET @ 1,000 yds.!!
  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    okay let me back up the truck here..... The program, I am using is Shooter on my android phone.

    http://sean.kndy.net/shooter/

    It prvoides solutions based in MOA, IPHY, and Mils depending on what your scope is calibrated for.

    The solution for my load (zeroed at 200yards) shooting at 1000 yards is listed as
    +20.5 Moa, +82clicks, +21.5 IPHY, +6 mils

    solution.png

    Now depending on what your scope is calibrated for is the solution you would use weather it be Moa, IPHY, or MILS.

    I was reading on another forum that Leupold calibrated its scopes in either unit of measure with no standard so to speak, of which scope came with what so I was wondering if anyone here had ran into this....

    More than likley its MOA but will do some more reasearch....

    Found another Thread on longrange hunting with the same question
    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/leupold-iphy-moa-47822/

    Im thinking it is Moa but Ill shoot to verify.....Sorry. I am terrible at trying to articulate my thought process...
  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
    I must be missing something here. 4 clicks of your scope will change the point of impact 1" (approximately) @ 100 yds., 2" @ 200 yds., 3" @ 300 yds., and 10" @ 1,000 yds. Your example of 20.5 MOA or 21.5 IPHY (BTW, I have not heard/seen IPHY used in ballistics before.) would be about 17.5 FEET @ 1,000 yds.!!



    Right.... that is the correction from my ZERO (200 yards)... to be zeroed at 1000 yards... +20.5 moa.
    The 4 clicks would be the difference from 20.5 MOA (if my scope is MOA) to 21.5 IPHY (If my scope is calibrated in IPHY).
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are so many things going on as you move from 200 to 1000 that the difference between MOA and IPHY (about 5%) can be swallowed up in the noise level.
    Your scope may be cataloged for one adjustment or the other but what is its ACTUAL calibration? Back when the gunzines actually checked scopes on an optical bench or the range, actual adjustments varied much more than that 5%. A scope with quarter MOA label might actually be a third or a fifth.
    Is your bullet BC what the maker claims and is the app handling it properly? (Sierra shows G1 by velocity range, Berger is now giving G7 values which are based on a boattail spitzer closer to what they actually make.)
    Is your velocity what you think it is and is it consistent enough not to introduce vertical stringing at long range?

    The only real answer is to zero carefully at 200, crank the scope up 20.5 or 21.5 whatevers and SHOOT THE GUN!

    A friend uses a "thermometer target" with an aiming point at the bottom of a tall scale so he can apply comeups on a target instead of depending on scope adjustment calibration.
  • demo-dandemo-dan Member Posts: 109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nikon Spot On has really helped with elevation, temperature, wind, and bullet comparison and selection. I realize that you're using a Leupold but it's a pretty helpful site for shooting out to range in different conditions.
    Good luck shooting
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys,

    Here's something I missed in the past. Your scope say's 1 click = 1/4" @ 100 yds. So, if it is what they say it is then it's IPHY or inch per hundred yards.

    Now, when looking at this from a sizing point of view it's only 10 1/2" (MOA) vs. 10" (IPHY). The problem is when you have to dial up in IPHY, you are 5% behind what an MOA scope would come to.

    Example: A standard .308 match round takes 36 MOA to get to 1k from a 100 yd. zero. That's 378". If you dialed up the same number of clicks on an IPHY scope you would only be at 360". That 18" difference comes from the difference in the loss of 5% of an MOA with each 'click' on an IPHY scope.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,049 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    a minute of angle is 1.047" therefore, it takes less MOA clicks than it does 1/4"@100yd clicks to reach a zero at distance.

    I prefer MOA adjustments
  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    Guys,

    Here's something I missed in the past. Your scope say's 1 click = 1/4" @ 100 yds. So, if it is what they say it is then it's IPHY or inch per hundred yards.

    Now, when looking at this from a sizing point of view it's only 10 1/2" (MOA) vs. 10" (IPHY). The problem is when you have to dial up in IPHY, you are 5% behind what an MOA scope would come to.

    Example: A standard .308 match round takes 36 MOA to get to 1k from a 100 yd. zero. That's 378". If you dialed up the same number of clicks on an IPHY scope you would only be at 360". That 18" difference comes from the difference in the loss of 5% of an MOA with each 'click' on an IPHY scope.


    Sandwarrior,

    Right.... so would I be correct in thinking POI would be 10inches different frome 20.5 MOA to 21.5 IPHY depending on which my scope is calibrated for........ like if its MOA and I dial the IPHY I should hit 10 inches higher and vise versa I should hit 10 inches lower.

    Hawk Carse,
    quote:Is your bullet BC what the maker claims and is the app handling it properly? (Sierra shows G1 by velocity range, Berger is now giving G7 values which are based on a boattail spitzer closer to what they actually make.)
    Is your velocity what you think it is and is it consistent enough not to introduce vertical stringing at long range?

    Im hoping so...... My SD is 18 FPS, my velocity is right at 3020 average...Just now starting to play with seating depth to see if I can get it any better but this is the most consistent I have been


    Brian Litz (Ballistician for Berger bullets) helped write the software and I am using his g7 BC numbers for the 210 VLD. The program doesn't tell you what they are its just is listed as 210 VLD (Litz)..... He has tested the program out to 2400 yards with a 338 Lapua and found the program to be very accurate.

    I found another thread on the snipers hide talking about this very thinghttp://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2299138 and they recommend using a yard stick at 100 yards to check your come ups on your scope to determine how its tracking think Ill try that. ( sound very similar to your friends Thermometer style target[^])
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Idahoredneck,

    E-Zactly,

    The difference in what you 'see' between MOA and IPHY is next to nothing. It's when the difference is added up, when having to dial up to a long range. The difference is compounded to 18" on a standard .308 match. Now if you had a fast 6.5 or 7mm that only took 24 MOA to get to 1k, you'd still have a difference in the dial-up of 12".

    JustC,

    Yes, it takes less MOA clicks to bring the rifles aim up to a 1k shot. What I'm saying is when people don't know the difference, they might dial up 36" instead of 36 MOA (37.8")

    I prefer MOA as well. Even over mil-dot. It's just that what ever people have they need to know the differences. And why.
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