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Lead bullets and Leading in .44 Spc/Mag
cwinn
Member Posts: 1,223 ✭✭
Loaded my first batch of lead bullets, Missouri bullet company 200 grain RNFP. They are Brinell 12 hardness and supposed to be designed for cowboy velocities, which is what I wanted for light target loads. I used 7.8 grains of Unique in .44 Special cases and was sure to expand the case more than usual to avoid shaving. I dont have a chronograph yet so dont know the actual velocity, but they seemed only slightly hotter than Winchester factory cowboy lead loads.
Firing these was muzzleloader-like with quite a bit of smoke/dust coming from the barrel. (S&W 629 4") They seemed acceptably accurate with maybe a flier here or there. After shooting all 50 I could see what I think is a fair amount of leading in the barrel especially near the forcing cone.
What am I doing wrong or what should I do differently?
Firing these was muzzleloader-like with quite a bit of smoke/dust coming from the barrel. (S&W 629 4") They seemed acceptably accurate with maybe a flier here or there. After shooting all 50 I could see what I think is a fair amount of leading in the barrel especially near the forcing cone.
What am I doing wrong or what should I do differently?
Comments
You didn't do anything wrong.
I found some older load data for the same weight lead round.
Allaint's charge for a 5 1/2" barrelw/ Unique shows a min. charge of 5.6gr & max charge of 6.2gr. They are listed @ 665fps& 725fps repectivly.
Newer data from Alliant's website just has a max load of 8.7gr @ 1143fps.
Both of these were Cowboy Action loads.
BTW, I bought some bullets from them also for my .38/.357 & had some forcing cone splatter.
I found Zero bullet company. I buy there copper jacketed for almost the same price you get lead bullets, but no leading.[;)]
I would back the powder charge off some and try that.
The cowboy load seems too hot to me, and the bores in those pistols might be a little bigger than your 629.
Edit You are about half way polished in. Shooters Choice work well for me at pulling lead with a tight patch. You might consider some work with JB's Bore paste.
1. Undersized commercially cast bullets.
2. Too hard commercial lube that does nothing to seal the bore from the plasma of ignition.
3. Overly hard alloy not obdurating under fairly mild cast pressures.
This is why I do NOT buy commercially cast bullets anymore.
Slug your bore and make casts of your cylinders. Go with a bullet at least 1/1000" over groove size, assuming it chambers ok. Buy yourself some Lee liquid alox and tumble the bullets in it. Let dry.
Assuming the bullets aren't horribly undersized, I bet your problems go away.
I will almost guarantee you that your leading is resulting from:
1. Undersized commercially cast bullets.
2. Too hard commercial lube that does nothing to seal the bore from the plasma of ignition.
3. Overly hard alloy not obdurating under fairly mild cast pressures.
This is why I do NOT buy commercially cast bullets anymore.
Slug your bore and make casts of your cylinders. Go with a bullet at least 1/1000" over groove size, assuming it chambers ok. Buy yourself some Lee liquid alox and tumble the bullets in it. Let dry.
Assuming the bullets aren't horribly undersized, I bet your problems go away.
For the record, I'm doing all this with my home grown bullets, and I'm still getting leading.[:D]
Ill try adjusting my powder charge first and see what happens.
The company says these bullets are .430 diameter... How do I slug the bore? Is this where I take a ultra soft .44 lead ball and force it through the bore by hand, then measure the outer diameter?
This gun is fairly new. I have put probably 700-800 rounds through it at this point.
While we are on the subject, what is everyones favorite method for removing lead from your barrels?
It looks like you r loads are prtty warm for the special. I'd back it down a notch and see what happens.
Your bore might also be rough. You can lap it using light loads, lapping bullets and lapping compounds found at Brownells or similar sites.
I've fired a lot of rounds through two Uberti .38's and an S&W K38 lately, using bullets that ranged from hard to soft, and with Unique, WST, 231, and Trail Boss. The K38 consistently accumulates leading with all of the above, but the Ubertis do not, even after hundreds of rounds. The difference is that the cylinder throats and bores in the Ubertis, are very tight. I've also picked up no leading in an Uberti .44, after 150 rounds per session, using bullets that are .001 over both the throat and groove diameters. I cured a leading problem in a 38-40 by going from .401's to .403's, which I load with moderate to heavy charges of Unique and 2400.
I believe that leading starts with gas-cutting on the sides of the bullets.
I've got the exact same gun and shoot both Mag/Special loads that I reload with Universal Clays powder.
At first I thought it was the powder, but it isn't. When I shoot jacketed bullets with the same powder, no excess smoke at all and no lead "build up".
From a previous thread asking the same kind of question, several people here told me this was normal.
My only mistake was switching from lead to jacketed at the range without cleaning the gun completely first between loads. My accuracy went down the drain when I did this.
So now if I'm shooting jacketed, I don't switch to lead. And if I'm shooting lead, I don't switch to jacketed.
For me, problem solved/explained. Now I just expect smoke when shooting lead, and end up cleaning longer to get the lead out after shooting.
Lead costs less for me to reload on a regular long term basis. Otherwise I'd stick with jacketed.
Just my two cents. [:D]
Thanks again for the replys.
quote:Originally posted by jonk
I will almost guarantee you that your leading is resulting from:
1. Undersized commercially cast bullets.
2. Too hard commercial lube that does nothing to seal the bore from the plasma of ignition.
3. Overly hard alloy not obdurating under fairly mild cast pressures.
This is why I do NOT buy commercially cast bullets anymore.
Slug your bore and make casts of your cylinders. Go with a bullet at least 1/1000" over groove size, assuming it chambers ok. Buy yourself some Lee liquid alox and tumble the bullets in it. Let dry.
Assuming the bullets aren't horribly undersized, I bet your problems go away.
For the record, I'm doing all this with my home grown bullets, and I'm still getting leading.[:D]
In essence, I agree with Jonk. Leading is generally a sign of ignition gasses squeezing between the bore and the bullet.
Causes include too small a bullet, lube problems, and excessive pressure spikes early in the ignition process. Actual velocity has little to do with it.
He's the kicker. I don't profess to know everything. In fact, I know there are things I don't know. I have a 6" barrel for my .357. It leads with any cast load. I've slugged it and it it identical in diameter to other barrels I have that don't lead with the same loads. I don't understand it. I have just learned, over time, to limit the amount of cast bullets I use in it. If you don't let it accumulate, a few jacketed bullets will clear out the lead. Same pistol with a 9" barrel will shoot dead soft cast lead bullets all day long without any signs of leading, until I load to a certain pressure. I've got to figure out what that pressure is.
Closely relate to pressure, is the amount of crimp. I'm wondering if that's not the issue with Nemesis. Too much crimp, or the wrong kind, causing an early pressure spike, before the bullet fully Obturates to the bore. 'bout the only thing we haven't talked about.