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looking for a possible cure UPDATED
bpost
Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
The gun is an Encore rifle in 22BR caliber. It shoots best with a slightly dirty bore, I leave it that way. The problem is an inconsistent first shot from a stone cold barrel, it will be anywhere from 2-3" high at 100 yards, clean or dirty. The next shot(s) will be right on the money, shooting about 3/4" four shot groups. A shot made with a just warm, not hot barrel is on the money. It is only the first shot that is high.
Any ideas on what to try to fix this?
Below pic of today's shooting. Note how high shot one is. An Encore does not really face bedding issues in a traditional sense, could this be from barrel stresses in the steel???? I rechambered this barrel from a 22 hornet to a 22 BR some years back.
Any ideas on what to try to fix this?
Below pic of today's shooting. Note how high shot one is. An Encore does not really face bedding issues in a traditional sense, could this be from barrel stresses in the steel???? I rechambered this barrel from a 22 hornet to a 22 BR some years back.
Comments
Scared of it and flinch on the first shot[}:)][;)]
That is telling me it is some pressures built up in the stock/barrel.
Just for s---s and giggles, how do you store and transport it to range???
Do you hang it on a rack with the barrel on one hook and the stock on another?? Do you carry it in a hard case with too much foam pushing on it??
Try changing the above things and if it affects the first shot, then you got a finicky gun and perhaps a going over of the bedding and stock screw tightening methods.
I leave the gun AS-IS in the gun safe. The range is a walk out the back door, 75 feet to the shooting bench. I also shoot from the French doors while seated in the great room, I have a stable shooting bench in my house, I can shoot even in the rain. I know, I know, it sounds strange, but being single does have its advantages.
I will shoot it in the morning after leaving it out in the living room all night. I have seen this phenomenon several times. Trying to solve it is driving me nuts. The barrel has a Bullberry type hanger system for the forearm. It is home made but looks a lot like the real one.
I don't think babun,s post applies to a T-C. My 223 shoots to the same 1/2" hole from the first shot to the last.
Some rifles are like yours. The shooters just dump the first round into the backstop [;)]
I don't think babun,s post applies to a T-C. My 223 shoots to the same 1/2" hole from the first shot to the last.
I have shot many sniper type rifles in my life, And you can't dump the first round in real life scenarios, two-legged or 4 legged animals. I have tested many combinations for first round hits and even found that the choice of oil/lube left in a cleaned barrel can effect first round placement. I don't see any differences in a Encore rifle vs. a bolt action if you are leaning it against the barrel for 7 months, and asking why the first shot goes wild.
By the way, Parker/Hale used to sell their M-85 with the statement:
"95% FIRST shot hit".
I won't own a gun that didn't put it's first round within 3" of the rest of the group.
Seriously, there are rifles that do that and there is often not much you can do about it. I shoot Benchrest and have had BR barrels that did the same thing. Maybe not as much as 2 or 3 inches, but out of the group at any rate. Most BR shooters, as a matter of routine, shoot one fouling shot whether they really need to or not.
When hunting, I used to carry empty primed cases in my pocket and would shoot one into the ground when getting ready to hunt. I can't say that made any difference in practical hunting accuracy, but it made me feel better.
JMHO
Ray
Don't shoot the first shot. Go directly to the second.[;)]
Seriously, there are rifles that do that and there is often not much you can do about it. I shoot Benchrest and have had BR barrels that did the same thing. Maybe not as much as 2 or 3 inches, but out of the group at any rate. Most BR shooters, as a matter of routine, shoot one fouling shot whether they really need to or not.
When hunting, I used to carry empty primed cases in my pocket and would shoot one into the ground when getting ready to hunt. I can't say that made any difference in practical hunting accuracy, but it made me feel better.
JMHO
Ray
+1
When I hunted in upstate New Yuk, {read that as from 25 degrees to
-15 degrees}, The deer rifles were never brought in from the cold.
I knew how they shot the first round {cold rifle & cold ammo} and Never had the chance to fire a fouling shot before the 8 pointer ran away.[:D]
But yet, while shooting 4 position nra matches with my 1413 Anschutz,
I always fired at least two foulers.
Bpost... what happened today? Did you shoot it??
Way too windy today so I cut more firewood. Tomorrow morning is supposed to be calm, I will give it a go then and post the results.
[5 to 10 shots?} then rub an ice cube along the entire top of the barrel, to cool only the top half. Quickly fire another string of shots.
Does this duplicate your first shots or does it do the opposite? Which way does the first "cold" shot move??
Set your POI 2" lower than it is now, that will put your cold barrel shot where you want it.
Your second shot will be a tad low, and if you need 3-5 shots on a deer you lost it anyway (or will have time to remember to hold a bit high).
OK, so we know your rifle groups well.
Set your POI 2" lower than it is now, that will put your cold barrel shot where you want it.
Your second shot will be a tad low, and if you need 3-5 shots on a deer you lost it anyway (or will have time to remember to hold a bit high).
I don't think he's using a .22br for deer hunting and that rifle is not grouping well at all. A 2" five shot group is what I expect from my .35 Rem Marlin 336 at 100 yards.
If I took his post correctly, The gun is capable of sub MOA {as it should be} BUT not with the first or second round fired in that group. He has troubles and I hope we here can help he fix this head ache.
IF he's shooting paper, he can dump the first couple rounds into the dirt.
IF he's shooting hair, he needs his first round to be on POI.
IMHO Barrels that shoot every round, from cold to hot, into the same small group are freaks. Barrels that walk the first couple out of the group are the normal.
And why not hunt deer size game with a 22BR? Here ANY centerfire is legal for deer hunting, and I know one guy that has taken a lot of deer with his 22 Hornet (what bpost's Encore originally was).
This calls for some scientific type of research. You must try to "reconstruct" the problem. Try this... Get the barrel grouping nicely,
[5 to 10 shots?} then rub an ice cube along the entire top of the barrel, to cool only the top half. Quickly fire another string of shots.
Does this duplicate your first shots or does it do the opposite? Which way does the first "cold" shot move??
That seems like a fun experiment, I am going to try it and see what happens.
I am also going to change the tension on the forearm hanger screws. To start, I will take the whole forearm, hanger and all shooting a group to see if the issue goes away. Put the hanger back on and shoot it the next day to see what happens.
run the full range of what a sniper may encounter for the FIRST shot.
All the guns were better than moa shooters, but I was "forcing" the first shot issue to the max. Sometimes you just don't have the luxury of walking a bullet into a target. [;)]
Not that I have any idea how to help, just curious. [:)]
I am betting forearm pressure/torque, that is aggravated by either heat and/or vibration.
A hanger/torque spot on a barrel has never been something I felt comfortable with. Too much torque creates a bridge pressure, too little messes with harmonics. use an in/lb torque wrench, and adjust only a few pounds at a time, and see if there is a sweet spot.
Like others said, when shooting paper I would burn a round and then shoot for record. When hunting I would crank the scope down 8 clicks and right four for first(and hopefully only) shot at hair. Loved that gun, I could remove the stock and scope clean and reassemble and count on point of impact changing less than 1" at a 100 yards.
Get married! That will fix it as there will be no more shooting in the house! And it works everytime. I know.
BPOST wrote: "I leave the gun AS-IS in the gun safe. The range is a walk out the back door, 75 feet to the shooting bench. I also shoot from the French doors while seated in the great room, I have a stable shooting bench in my house, I can shoot even in the rain. I know, I know, it sounds strange, but being single does have its advantages"
Get married! That will fix it as there will be no more shooting in the house! And it works everytime. I know.
Been married/divorced three times, the guns were here before they got here and were still here after they were gone!!! [:D][:D]