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steel case loads
casper1947
Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have some steel berdan primed 7.62x54 cases. I loaded these the same as the brass boxer I have been using successfully, H4895 47g 150 JSP. The max for brass is 51g.
I had 1 split and others were difficult to eject.
I think I might be a bit LOW.
I would like other opinions before loading any more.
I had 1 split and others were difficult to eject.
I think I might be a bit LOW.
I would like other opinions before loading any more.
Comments
I wouldn't reload steel cases,...but that's just me.
I don't know if the steel measurement would need to be slid one way or the other.
Try screwing a .45 brush on a rod, and spinning it in the chamber with some solvent about 100 turns; then mop out and dry. See if that helps.
I don't think your load is over pressure, but you might try backing down a grain and see; the Mosin is a robust action and isn't going to let go unless grossly overpressured, but you could bust an extractor the way you're going.
Steel/Berdan averaged 2680, 2690, and 2696 fps.
Brass (Hansen) cases/Rem. 9 1/2 primer averaged 2705 and 2706 fps.
Average group size was 2.20" for all five 5-shot groups which I think is pretty good for an as-issued military rifle. My notes do not indicate any trouble with extraction or anything else except some hangfires with Fiocchi 217B primers. You will note that velocities are almost the same; Berdan vs Rem. 9 1/2.
Perhaps, as has been said, a chamber polish might help. If I had those case, I would certainly use them. Hope this helps.
These are the only steel I have ever used in a bolt action, could this be normal?
I just measured 5 un-used and 5 used. Un-used 0.483 and the used 0.492 is the largest. That does not seem unreasonable to me. Perhaps I should try and clean of lube them? Of course not in a tumbler or sonic cleaner.
These are copper washed steel cases.
I don't think it's an issue; if the bolt opens with a firm rap of the hand, and doesn't require hitting it with a 2X4, it's common for steel in these guns.
Cleaning them can't hurt. I don't know from your post if you meant 'cleaning lube OFF them' or 'cleaning OR lube them'. Lubing is a touchy subject. It certainly increases bolt thrust on the receiver, and in general I would say 'don't do it', at least not with grease or anything. Would it hurt? Probably not, but it is going to batter the bolt and receiver a lot more than normal.
It is very likely that the internal volume of your cases is quite different than that of brass cases.
This difference will make a huge difference as far as the pressure generated especially with certain powders!
The steel weighted 65.4g and brass 66.0g.
Is that significant? Is distilled water vital to the measurement?
I am using H4895.
Thanks
Especially my apples to yours, exactly how much of a difference I cannot say.
It would appear that your steel cases do have a smaller internal volume than your brass ones.
I ran a Quickloads simulation and If you are seating a 150g Hornady soft point at 3.040" you should be at~ 42,000 PSI, the max listed psi is 56,565.
This also gives you ~ 83% case fill.
This is with the data I have in my computer YMMV.
I would need exact dimensions of your bullet, including boat tail, distilled water weight and your OAL to give a better sim.
I cannot remember if H4895 is one of the powders that they recommended for downloading or not.
How does a "dummy" round fit in the rifle?
I would fire an EMPTY primed case then stuff a bullet in it to make one up if you haven't already done so to make one.
Have you slugged the bore? If so what are those dimensions?
When you fire, it may expand more and get work hardened more during firing and resizing.
Unless they're already primed, why not anneal a few and try your load again?
I don't think the 0.6cc difference in volume between steel and brass is significant because the case expands to the chamber walls when you fire, and then the actual volume inside the steel case is probably LARGER than brass because you can probably make a steel case with thinner walls.
If a steel case is thinner AND the volume is lower, then that's a sign it's expanding a lot when you fire. So that's probably why it split.
I would say very lightly lubing the case doesn't batter the bolt unless the headspace is excessive.
The case is not strong enough to significantly reinforce a rifle action. It's just too thin, and not made of forged or alloy steel.
I bet your chamber needs cleaning. Steel case guns probably get plinked with a lot.
Also, since steel is stiffer, it takes more pressure to seal it against the chamber walls, and I bet it doesn't form quite as good a seal. So carbon can get in there.
Carbon makes cases stick. If that's the problem, a clean brass case should extract sticky too, now that the chamber is dirty. It could have been clean before, when you didn't have a problem.
which are difficult to find now.
These are unused primed steel cases.The only head-stamp info is "17" and "73" on the majority of them.
I have not had any issues with the brass boxer that i have reloaded using the same Hornady #3031 bullet.
I am thinking these are not very strong cheap cases.
The Nazis developed steel case 7.92X57 ammo but mostly saved it for rifles because a bolt action is more reliable than many automatic weapons. They were real short of copper because they didn't use any bag guns (cannons without a cartridge case) so they definitely would have liked to have used steel wherever they could.
If it's not a dirty chamber, I would thinly lube the cases with something that didn't attract dirt, especially because you're so far below the max pressure.
If they're new cases, then one probably split because of a flaw, don't try to anneal primed cases. They should be already annealed.
Barnaul Machine Tool Plant JSC, 28 Polevaya St., Barnaul 656002, Altai Territory, Russia
Per their web page for the ammo they sell the PSI does not exceed 39,769.
My primary source of load data is from "MODERN RELOADING 2ED", but I will refer to others as well.
LEE has included a section on powder reduction and PSI. I have replicated his formula in excel and it appears that my 47g of H4895 creates abt. 43,000 PSI. To get to the 39,000 range I would need to reduce to 45gr.
To this point I have stayed within the existing load tables that someone else has done. It feels like I am peeking over the fence where the real reloaders live.
You have entered an odd area of reloading and I certainly cannot blame you for doing so given current conditions.
My experiance with loading steel is with a bunch of primed pistol cases I was given.
Rifle is always more work than straight walled pistol.
Usually it is simpler than this but as you are seeing the steel case has its own quirks.
Based on your info I would try to reduce pressures a little and try again.
Please keep us posted in case anyone needs the info for future use.
The action functioned smooth no extraction problems.
I was quite pleased with the accuracy of a 1943 91/30 that i have only bore sighted
speed was a bit lower than i expected but a lot of other variables could contribute to this.
I was most concerned with it being faster than calculated.
the next project may be to load it with 165g LFP. but that would be another topic.
Thanks to all for the input.