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Titegroup .45s- what's the highest you go?

JackBwrJackBwr Member Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭
Discussed before. Bought 2 lbs of Titegroup last year. Same lot. Did some of my own testing through my CED M2 chronograph. Using 185 gr Hornady HP xtps. I started out at 5.5. (On some of this stuff, I think the book is so conservative I don't bother starting at the bottom anymore.)

The velocities were about 150 ft/sec below those listed in the book. That was using a 5" barrel just like the book.

I bumped up to 6 to 6.1 grains. It was cooler out and the velocities really didn't even budge. Since then I called Hodgdon and have read a lot of forums on it. Seems like most people are scared to hit 6. I'm loading them at 6 to 6.2 and I'm not too worried about it. I don't think I have a very potent batch of the stuff.

I'm certainly not trying to set any velocity records but I'd like 185 gr. bullets to at least be hitting 800. This load was not getting there on a 45 degree day for me.

How high do you think you could go before it gets risky? 6.1 is red in the book.

Comments

  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    You should be at about 900 fps with that load.

    Before you go higher on powder, {and I think you could go a little more}, shoot that load from other guns, and check your chrono.

    You should be at about 18,500 CUP , below the +P rating of 21000 CUP.

    Check ALL the other factors first, before you just add more powder.
  • JackBwrJackBwr Member Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was only getting mid to upper 700s with that load. It was 45 degrees. If it was 90 out I'd probably gain 50 or 60 fps and be there. I shot them through 3 different barrel sizes. All with low round counts. The velocity progression was there as I stepped up to longer barrels but they seemed slow across the board. I'll have to test them when its hot out.

    I'm not going to go any higher with the powder. I don't want to beat stuff up.

    The guy at Hodgdon said they test in a lab. They set the chrono up 10 ft away and shoot through a sheet of cardboard to prevent the blast wave from interfering with the numbers. He says they use a very tight tolerance SAAMI(?) spec barrel to get their data as well as most testing that is done for the reloading books.

    He said factory barrels tend to be slightly looser which is why velocities can be slower than the book. They do this for additional safety factor. Whatever is safe in their test should be safe data for any barrel across the board. So I guess the data in the book is somewhat of a best case scenario for expected velocity.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    https://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html


    Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.135" 5.0 892fps 14,600 CUP....... 5.5 956fps 17,000 CUP
    You should be near 950 fps with that load.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    I would look at TWO major items #1 Have you calibrated your powder measure with a scale and Known calibration weights for the scale.[?] and #2 have you fired any ammo that has the FPS noted on the box through your pistol with Your Chronograph. [?] Until you are sure of both your Scales and
    Chronograph you are skating on thin ICE.

    EDIT well I am at a lost To explain why You are getting so low velocity . I personally have never used TiteGroup . Always used VV 310 or Bulls-Eye or 231. I know their results from 40 + years of Ransom rest testing as well as 25+ years of Chronograph. You will find each brand and weight of bullet will have a sweet spot when it comes to velocity in other words the velocity that shoots the smallest group
    with one powder will shoot smallest groups with other powders loaded to same velocity. I do all my testing at 50 yards.
  • JackBwrJackBwr Member Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    https://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html


    Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.135" 5.0 892fps 14,600 CUP....... 5.5 956fps 17,000 CUP
    You should be near 950 fps with that load.


    Wow. Huge difference in OAL. I've been loading them to 1.21-1.22. Hornady book lists them to be at 1.21. I wonder if that could cause the velocity difference?
  • JackBwrJackBwr Member Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    I would look at TWO major items #1 Have you calibrated your powder measure with a scale and Known calibration weights for the scale.[?] and #2 have you fired any ammo that has the FPS noted on the box through your pistol with Your Chronograph. [?] Until you are sure of both your Scales and
    Chronograph you are skating on thin ICE.


    Yes. I have check weights down to 0.5 grain that I use to check the scale every time I start up and periodically throughout. It also has it's own 100 gram check weight that it matches to 1543 grains on the calibration.

    I trust the chrono. The CED M2 runs $100 more than most of them available and is used in crime labs. The numbers normally make sense when testing anything else.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JackBwr
    quote:Originally posted by babun
    https://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html


    Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.135" 5.0 892fps 14,600 CUP....... 5.5 956fps 17,000 CUP
    You should be near 950 fps with that load.


    Wow. Huge difference in OAL. I've been loading them to 1.21-1.22. Hornady book lists them to be at 1.21. I wonder if that could cause the velocity difference?


    Maybe...

    you are working with a case that is fat for the amount of powder. Any forward bullet movement will lower the pressure, maybe a lot of pressure is lost when the case expands upon firing?
    The closer the bullet is to the lands and groves does raise the pressure [FPS].
    Think that maybe your extra "jump" till it seals is allowing a pressure drop??
    Drop the charge a bit and sit the bullets out
    farther, check speed then. You might get a surprise.[^]
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullseye or W231 shooter here, though I did run a gallon jar or two of Reddot in a 45ACP. IMHO the 45ACP was designed/made for 230gr bullets and that is what I have run in mine.

    Powder lots can vary. Pressures can spike very suddenly, each additional .1 grain does not always produce a linear response.

    Does the load function your pistol correctly? Does it shoot where you point it? I'm not worried about velocity as much, especially matching some book.

    Have I ever gone beyond book loading data. Yes, I have. I had winter loads for rifles that were for below zero and a cold chamber.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    I too have used reddot in target .45 loads...
    smokey, dirty, but cheap.

    He says he's getting only about 750 fps, thats insanely low for a 185 grain bullet, just about any factory load {not including midrange target} will get 950 to 1100 fps.

    6 grs of 231 should get about 900fps.

    Somethings wrong?????
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