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Published starting loads for center fire rifle

I'm a retired? hunter that still likes to punch holes in paper, I've found that the lighter loads at least for me shoot better groups. Most often 10 percent plus or minus of listed starting loads. I've asked Hodgdon if reducing starting loads up to 10 percent might be dangerous but so far have never got a reply. I would be interested in what more experienced re-loaders think [:)] thanks

Comments

  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some powders work just fine at less than listed starting loads, Unique is one I trust. Most double base powder will carry the flame I think. Single base slow stuff like 4831 in really reduced loads has a reputation of blowing up rifles. The theory is the fire starts, the bullet starts to move, the fire starts to die out, the bullets stops in the rifling, the fire and pressure go erratic and a detonation occurs. With a fuller case of powder, the fire never gets a chance to die out, so the bullet never stops moving and pressure builds nicely.

    A lot safer to stick to published data. However, there are times when some powder is cheap and you need to work up your own data. These days you don't find odd lots of powder for sale very often. My dad use to say something to the effect that if the powder was cheap enough and in a quantity worth while he would buy a rifle to shoot it.

    I have shot several 100 pounds of odd powder in the last nearly 50 years.
  • FrancFFrancF Member, Moderator Posts: 35,278 ******
    edited November -1
    It's always good to cross check load data. It's been my experience what might be a starting load in one book might be a Max. load in another. I usually try and find a happy average between bullet and powder Manufactures. Some will find this unnecessary, however in doing so I never had an over or under load without me knowing it.
  • Blacklion66Blacklion66 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The load that caused the question is a load for a 7mm Mauser 150 grain bullet with a starting load of 44 grains of IMR 4064, this rifle shoots its best group with 40.9 grains of IMR 4064.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So if you check online at http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ you will find that 150 Barns TTSX bullet in a 7mm Mauser using IMR 4064 starts at 34.0 gr for 2297 fps with 42,400 CUP max 37.0 2423 45,600

    with a 150 gr Nosler BT start 36.3 2345 41,000 max 38.6 2248 45,300

    Both loads are very mild IMHO, and well under your load of 40.9 gr. In a modern rifle you should be just fine. Check their brass and primer specifications.

    Your load with a mag primer in a reformed military 30-06 case likely will be way to hot, than a commercial 7mm Mauser case with a standard primer.
  • Blacklion66Blacklion66 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry a old age brain fart I think [:I] I meant to say 30.9 of IMR 4064.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A 10 grain 25% error on paper is no big deal, in a cartridge its a different story. How many rounds have you shot with the lite load? Do you point the rifle up before every shot to put the powder back to the primer? Do you look at every fired case when you are shooting, especially the primer?

    How much better is your group with the extra lite load vs. the standard starting load? Is your rifle a good strong modern action with gas handling vs. say a rolling block? A 98 Mauser or better would be my choice.

    So have you look at other powders that put you in the ball park velocity generated by your lite load, but are closer to published starting loads?

    I have little experience with the 7mm Mauser. Been shooting and loading 8mm Mauser's for nearly 50 years and a 7mm Rem mag for almost 40.
  • Blacklion66Blacklion66 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rifle is a 1908 Mauser, new mauser barrel, glass bedded, Timney trigger with a decent 6-18 scope, Have tried IMR 7828 SSC and IMR 3031 then IMR 4064

    With the IMR 4064 (starting load) groups went from dollar size down to less than a 50 cent piece, last ten rounds (30.9 grains) group was one ragged hole except for one round I threw out.

    The barrel has about 200 rounds through it with the last 40 using IMR 4064 powder.

    The rifle is going to a grandson as a hog and deer riffle. anything that will shoot a 2 inch group would be just fine, but more out of curiosity I wanted to see what the old girl would do.

    To be on the safe side I'm going to bump the load back to 34 grains of IMR 4064. The difference in velocity seems to be only 150-180 feet per sec.

    Thanks for your help, it got me to thinking on the right track[:)]
  • Blacklion66Blacklion66 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just got of the phone with Hodgdon, talked with a fellow by the name of Dave, he thought my light load would be ok as he'd never heard of a problem in a 7mm mauser, only in the larger magnum cases. However with his input and those who replied to this thread, the small group size just ain't worth taking a chance on. Many thanks to all
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your barrel should be "ironed in about now". A really good cleaning with a copper solvent, I like Shooter's Choice, then a JB Bore Paste treatment and you should be set.

    So do you think the rifle shot better with the lite load because it was a sweet spot or the less recoil/noise allowed you to shoot better?

    How full was the case % wise of full to the base of the bullet zone. IIRC less than 50% is just asking for big trouble, more than 75% (perhaps 2/3) is good to go as far as risk of the detonation issue.


    I just love a rifle that will shoot one ragged hole.
  • Blacklion66Blacklion66 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just came back from the range, the 34 grains of IMR 4064 opened up to 50 cent size which was no surprise.

    Case capacity with 30 grains I would guess in the 50-60 percent range, I think it's border line and not going to mess with it anymore. I've never used anything but Hoppes to clean the bore, ( maybe because I buy the stuff by the quart) I'm pretty sure other stuff works just as good and maybe a lot quicker.

    I had loaded 20 rounds with the hornady 162 grain sst bullet, 10 with 4064 powder and 10 with 34 grains of 3031. The 4064 powder loads were 1/2 dollar size but the 3031 powder group dropped down to quarter size. not sure why but that's good enough for me
  • JustCJustC Member, Moderator Posts: 16,035 ******
    edited November -1
    there are more than one "accuracy node" with any powder/bullet combination. My general rule would be to NOT drop below the listed minimum load. You are approaching a territory that could yield a bad experience. When you have space in the case where the flash from the primer can jump across the top of the powder column, you can drastically change the pressure curve of the load. I would suggest you work up in .3gr increments until you find the next accuracy "node", and stay within published load ranges for that powder/bullet.
  • Blacklion66Blacklion66 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    understood and agree with you 110 percent [:)]
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 11,434 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was told by Sierra that IMR 4895 was one of the better choices for "reduced loading". It worked well in that application for me in a large capacity (25/06) case. If I felt I HAD to download a big case, that's the powder I'd use. When doing this, you may find considerable variation in performance depending on powder position in the case. For more consistent results follow a "powder locating" process: after chambering a round, raise the muzzle to position the powder directly in front of the primer.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After lots of experimenting with several powders for reduced low recoil consistently ACCURATE loads. We settled on 5744 powder. We were looking for accurate reloads that allowed teenagers (especially girls) or recoil sensitive future hunters to use a big game rifles for practice and hunting as they matured and got more experienced and were not subjected to being battered and bruised from recoil and muzzle blast. (they could practice and hunt now and use same gun and/or caliber for larger big game or more distances later on as they developed their skills and know how with (a)/the rifle)
    We use accurate arms 5744 powder for reduced low recoil loads in several hunting rifles for several calibers with very good results on deer sized game using jacketed hunting bullets. (velocity around 2200-2400 fps) out to around 100 yards.

    Contact accurate arms or look online for listings for your caliber.

    Be very careful and do not double charge when reloading reduced loads.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I liked the original 5744 a lot. I got 32# for a lot less than $100, should have got 320#. The newer version doesn't work good for me.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
    I liked the original 5744 a lot. I got 32# for a lot less than $100, should have got 320#. The newer version doesn't work good for me.


    After I seen the above post by charliemeyer007
    I had to correct my previous post about using and testing Accurate Arms 5744 powder.

    We are using 5744 NOT XMR-5744.

    I thought that the two powders were the same formula by Western powders with the XMR being a later version but Appears that the XMR is the older 2000 version maybe????

    ANYWAY we have never tested the XMR version.
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