Removed expander ball in sizing die

riley p

I've been reloading for over forty years so not new to the task. ( I hate it; but it must be done if I'm going to shoot) In the last year or so I've gone to "three stage resizing" using my Dillon. 1: De-prime 2: resize (Without expander) 3: Open neck with Lyman expander die (for cast bullets). I'm loading 308 Winchester and load around 1500 ~ 2000 per year for Hi-Power shooting matches. I've noticed this really reduces the case stretch and ammount of brass I trim.

Is there ANYTHING wrong with this? It seems like I should have been doing this 30 years ago but was too dumb. Head space seems OK and function is fine in my M1A.

Unless there is something wrong that I am missing I'd think this would be recommended practice for anyone with a multi stage press?

bpost

The "issue", if there is one is case neck wall thickness variations, you will get inconsistent neck tension depending on the thickness. But, if your groups are OK and you are happy with the result, I can see nothing wrong with what you are doing.

charliemeyer007

Are you shooting cast bullets? The expander ball/button is usually larger for cast bullets.

Lee case lube in the red and white tube doesn't kill primers. I use a q-tip to lightly lube the inside of the neck prior to sizing in order to reduce the drag on the neck as the expander is withdrawn.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/482023/lee-case-sizing-lube-2-oz-tube

For extra tough case forming I use the Redding Sizing Die Wax otherwise I just use the Lee.

riley p

Thanks guys. I'm using one batch of brass at a time. Usually buy it in lots of 500 and keep it going until 5 or 6 or 7 reloads and then recycle. I'm not using cast bullets and haven't for years though there was a time I did in high power... Just for fun. Cast bullet at under 2000 FPS is not realistic at 600 yards. Barely enough clicks on the sights and the ones I've fooled with would barely, just barely hold the black on the midrange target.

I use a Lee factory crimp die to apply the slightest "lock" on the bullet at station four on the Dillon. The bullet holds still (in the case) during the rapid stages and it doesn't seem to impair accuracy. I do use (and like) the Lee lube. I actually drilled and tapped a hole on the Dillon die block to hold bore cleaning swab that I apply a little of the Lee lube to once in a while. As the case goes onto the shell holder it gets a swipe on the swab to lube the mouth. Good stuff; and since I use it during the case prep stage of the misery it gets cleaned off in the tumbler. What I've been doing seemed reasonable, thanks for the affermation.

jonk

Well the m die is essentially replacing the expander button, and probably opening the case a thousandth or two more than the expander button does.

I don't see any problem per se, but consider:

-the sizing die squeezes down the neck so that the exterior diameter of the cases are all identical.
-the sizing button then opens up the interior so that the necks internal diameter is instead uniform.
-the M die opens up the neck another thousandth of an inch or two.

So in normal sizing let's use a .308 for an example.
1. All cases are sized.
2. All necks are opened to about .306 internal measurement.
3. All necks are opened a tad more, usually to about .311.

In your method:
1. Normal result. All cases are sized.
2. Skipped.
3. All necks are still open to .311.

Given the same end result, I can't imagine how you are changing accuracy any. As to less case stretch, that's purely a function of the expander ball dragging on the interior of the case neck so either your cases are dirty or you aren't lubing them.

Given that the M die is now going to have to force its way DOWN into the tight case- that probably has an internal diameter of about .302 prior to running over the expander ball- I would think that the danger would be that you could push down the case shoulder or split a neck by making such a big jump.

Personally I wouldn't do it, but if it works for you and the ammo chambers I don't see an issue either.

MG1890

Have you checked loaded ammo for bullet runout?

riley p

I haven't checked for run out. If you mean rolling them on a sheet of glass and loking for a bit of wobble. Used to do that years ago but not for a long time now. I am a bit more careful with the ammo I make for 600 yards but find that at 200 / 300 you have to be making some pretty poor stuff to not hold the 6" X ring. Or the dinner plate 10 ring. Hi-Power needs good ammunition and a sufficiently accurate gun but is largely repetive practice and mental focus. Most folks / nearly everyone show up to the match with enough gun and ammo to shoot a winning score. After that it's mostly know-how and a mental game. To zero in on one component (making "perfect" ammunition) is not that productive.

MG1890

I thought the whole point was diagnosing if anything was amiss by skipping the neck expansion in the sizer die.

Why not check runout?