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Rifle powder selection ?

hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
What criteria do you all use for selecting a rifle powder for whatever cartridge you're going to load? Burn rate, granual shape or size, which powder gives the most velocity, or perhaps some other criteria.

I'm wanting to start fresh on reloading my 264 Win Mag, using 130 grain swift scirrocco bullets. I'm leaning in the direction of H4831, R-22, or perhaps IMR 7828, but would like some ideas please.

Comments

  • CapnMidnightCapnMidnight Member Posts: 8,520
    edited November -1
    I'm a 264 shooter from way back. You might also try H4895. Does your 264 have a 26" barrel? I've not ever found one with a shorter than 26" to shoot really well.
    As you said, H4831SC and RL 22 are good choices, you might also try H1000.
    W.D.
  • pip5255pip5255 Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hadjii
    What criteria do you all use for selecting a rifle powder for whatever cartridge you're going to load? Burn rate, granual shape or size, which powder gives the most velocity, or perhaps some other criteria.

    I'm wanting to start fresh on reloading my 264 Win Mag, using 130 grain swift scirrocco bullets. I'm leaning in the direction of H4831, R-22, or perhaps IMR 7828, but would like some ideas please.


    when I am just starting to load for a new gun I generally load 10 rounds each of 5 or 6 different loads just to get a feel for her, then if I like what I see I work that load to the max if possible and works the best but alot of my loads work better just under max loads.
    just because you could doesn't mean you should
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like full cases or even slightly compressed charges. I think ball powders burn cooler and help barrel life. They meter nice too. In today's world most have to make do with what they can find.

    My Lyman book list IMR-7828 and RX-22 as the most potentially accurate loads.

    AA8700,H1000 and H50BMG, RX25, IMR-4831, IMR-4831SC are also listed.

    I shot lots of H870 in my 7mm Rem Mag.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    what ever takes the power charge to the base of the neck at slighty below MAX load then I know I cant over load to a dangerous level with this powder.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    CapnMidnight, my 264 is a Ruger 77 Hawkeye. 24" barrel. Mcmillan varmint style stock, pillar bedded and action glass bedded. Trigger tuned to 2 1/2 pounds. With 140 a-max's, I've shot 1/4" groups @ 100 yards, using H4350. Scope is a Vortex 6-24 mil/mil scope. It has a lot of potential, probably more than the shooter, but its still fun seeing what I can get out of her.
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Due to the case capacity/bore ratio the slower powders should give the best results. I'd guess anything from 4831 to 870 would be good.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hadjii,

    I think I can add a little bit to your dilemma...

    First and foremost, ball powders do NOT burn cooler and quite to the contrary, burn hotter than stick or short stick. This old folk tale has been around way too long to let it continue. They are also coated with deterrents and graphite which contribute to fouling.

    Powders of choice for the .264 Win. Mag. and the Scirocco are as tested:

    Re-25 (perfect load, double base or it's a hotter powder)

    H-1000 (compressed but cooler burning)

    V V N-160 (similar to H-1000, cool burning)

    IMR-7828 (similar to Re-25, yields good accuracy even if it burns hotter)

    H-1000 is difficult to find and Hodgden has told us that the IMR-7977 is a best match given the new 'Enduron' technology.

    Best.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks nononsense. I guess it'll be IMR 7828, only because of the powders you listed, 7828 is the only one I've actually found around where I'm at. Perhaps a road trip is in order.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hadjii,

    You're just up in Iowa, check out Gunstop Reloading in Minnesota. They usually have some good prices and they will answer question but not take orders online for sale products.

    Or take a nice drive down to Powder Valley in Winfield, KS.

    Or Graf & Sons in Mexico, MO.

    Put together an order with shooting buddies to split the cost of shipping and HAZMAT. I think Bullets.com in Missouri lowered their HAZMAT to $20.00, but check their website.

    Best.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On the 264 caliber you need to first try H4831 or H4831SC and start at the min recommended for a three shot test. (not over 3 shots because the barrel heats fast.)
    I would load 3 rounds of the minimum load and 3 rounds of the medium load and let barrel cool down between 3 shot groups by leaving the bolt open and the gun vertical so as the chimey effect of air thru barrel will let it cool somewhat faster rather than just leaving the bolt closed.
    If it don't like H4831SC it's going to be little contrary. I've also seen them like H1000.
    They usually don't like IMR4831 and I call H4895 a firecracker powder, pops good and may shoot a good group one day and not next day.(by good group I mean 1 1/4 inch average or less for a hunting rifle) The 264 win mag usually responds good to a free floated barrel if it's a bolt action. A non free floated 264 barrel will usually string groups as the barrel heats.
    A 264 win magnum is one of my favorite very very long range calibers calibers even thou it's said that throat erosion or barrel life is not as long as other calibers, but if you don't try to use it as a gopher gun and not shoot over 3 shot groups it will last you a long time. I would not start reload testing with the HIGH dollar swift bullets shooting at paper, Use the lesser priced 120-140 grain Sierra spritzers (flat base) or a equiv Hornady bullet then test with the swift or Nosler bullet or same weight after it performs on paper and they will be right on. No good reason initial reload testing on paper with high dollar bullets, save your money for lottery tickets or the Casino. You do need to use a very good hunting bullet like the swift or Nosler solids (not Hollow Points) when hunting deer or larger game because a lesser bullet has tendency to sometimes break up (fragment) into too many small pieces if bone is encountered on the entrance side at HV from the 264 Mag and other HV guns, especially at close range and you will end up with a wounded animal, may never find or find few days later, small blood trails. Found this out the hard way when first hunting with a 264 and low priced bullet or ballistic tip bullets at HV's.

    A lyman reloading manual is kinda real close to suggested loads for guns as well as a computer search, but hands on experience advise is hard to beat from an old foggie that has been their and done that reloading and testing!
    IMR4350 will sometimes produce a good group from a 264, but is usually more critical of power weight as compared to the H4831SC or the H1000 powders. I use only the 120 or 140 gr bullets, not any heavier nor lighter for good consistent accuracy. I have some 264's hunting rifles that consistently shoot less than 1/2 inch 3 shot groups. I also use a reduced load using 5744 powder at 30 30 velocities and let grandkids hunt deer sized game with a 264 mag. (very accurate out to 150 yards and low recoil using 120 gr bullets)
  • xvigaugexvigauge Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sometimes, we are very limited on powder selection. That being said, the slower burning powders will serve you best. The ones you are leaning toward will work just fine. Some however, may be more accurate than others. Try a few out if possible and settle on the most accurate one. Don't worry about getting velocity over accuracy. Just about any .264 load will be plenty fast.
    xvigauge
  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 14,793 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hadjii
    Thanks nononsense. I guess it'll be IMR 7828, only because of the powders you listed, 7828 is the only one I've actually found around where I'm at. Perhaps a road trip is in order.

    You could try shopping a little closer to home and save some gas money...
    http://www.GunBroker.com/Reloading-Supplies/BI.aspx?Keywords=reloader+25

    Good luck!
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well nononsense, as far as shooting buddies go, I'm afraid I'm it. None of my friends are into RELOADING at all. Can't seem to get one of my three daughters hooked up with an outdoorsman. I told them one day that doggone it, one of you has to marry a hunter, because I plan on hunting into my eighties, and come hell or high water, somebody's gonna have to take me, so get busy. All they did was laugh.(sigh)
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NeoBlackdog,

    quote:You could try shopping a little closer to home and save some gas money...
    http://www.GunBroker.com/Reloading-Supplies/BI.aspx?Keywords=reloader+25

    While I support the Auction side, I cannot abide by the thugs who want to overcharge for a powder which is not only available but cheaper nearly everywhere! Even Brownells located in Iowa and known for higher prices is $6.00/lb cheaper than those folks in the auctions. I'm willing to drive quite a few miles to save $6.00/lb AND the HAZMAT charge.

    hadjii,

    The 7828 will work just fine for your reloading. But when you get the chance try IMR-7977 or H-1000 which ever is most available to you in your area. Although pricier per pound than U.S. powders, the VV N-165 is a marvelous cooler burning slower powder for the .264 Win. Mag. also.

    Best.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks nononsense. I'm not gonna buy any powder online. I'm not willing to pay the hazmat fee. There's plenty of 7828 close by, so I'm gonna go that route. Don't know that I've seen any IMR 7977 but I have seen some H1000 as well as Retumbo, also quite a bit of R-22, so I think I'll be fine. BTW, I did try some H4831SC in my 257 Roberts today with Norma 100 grain bullets. My groups with 46.5 grains were right at 1 inch. That's about half the size of my best groups with R-17, so I was happy with that as well.
  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 14,793 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    NeoBlackdog,

    quote:You could try shopping a little closer to home and save some gas money...
    http://www.GunBroker.com/Reloading-Supplies/BI.aspx?Keywords=reloader+25

    While I support the Auction side, I cannot abide by the thugs who want to overcharge for a powder which is not only available but cheaper nearly everywhere! Even Brownells located in Iowa and known for higher prices is $6.00/lb cheaper than those folks in the auctions. I'm willing to drive quite a few miles to save $6.00/lb AND the HAZMAT charge.

    hadjii,

    The 7828 will work just fine for your reloading. But when you get the chance try IMR-7977 or H-1000 which ever is most available to you in your area. Although pricier per pound than U.S. powders, the VV N-165 is a marvelous cooler burning slower powder for the .264 Win. Mag. also.

    Best.


    The prices many are asking are outrageous. I was merely pointing him towards some available powder.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hadjii
    Thanks nononsense. I'm not gonna buy any powder online. I'm not willing to pay the hazmat fee. There's plenty of 7828 close by, so I'm gonna go that route. Don't know that I've seen any IMR 7977 but I have seen some H1000 as well as Retumbo, also quite a bit of R-22, so I think I'll be fine. BTW, I did try some H4831SC in my 257 Roberts today with Norma 100 grain bullets. My groups with 46.5 grains were right at 1 inch. That's about half the size of my best groups with R-17, so I was happy with that as well.


    Have you tried the H4831SC that you tested in your 257 in your 264?
    The 264 win mags usually like the H4831SC for good groups with 120 and or 140 gr bullets from a 26 inch barrel. (3 shot groups)If you need more than 3 shots at a animal don't tell anyone.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okie743, I haven't tried it in my 264 yet, but I'm going too, as soon as I get all my green beans in the garden pulled. Lord, I went crazy planting the garden this year, and now I gotta pay the price. That's OK though, they'll sure taste good this winter. Next problem is finding a new place to go deer hunting this fall. I'm on a lease in Louisiana, so I always have there to go, but I like going different places. I'm thinking Oklahoma next year. One day, I'll perhaps get drawn for that moose tag in Maine that I've been applying for, for so many years. Course, that's what I've got my 375 Ruger for, although last year I did shoot a deer in Louisiana with the 375. Actually, it did a nice job with a cast bullet and 1900 fps. It didn't make the deer taste any better though. It's dang tough to beat corn fed, Iowa deer, when it comes to table fare.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hadjii
    Okie743, I haven't tried it in my 264 yet, but I'm going too, as soon as I get all my green beans in the garden pulled. Lord, I went crazy planting the garden this year, and now I gotta pay the price. That's OK though, they'll sure taste good this winter. Next problem is finding a new place to go deer hunting this fall. I'm on a lease in Louisiana, so I always have there to go, but I like going different places. I'm thinking Oklahoma next year. One day, I'll perhaps get drawn for that moose tag in Maine that I've been applying for, for so many years. Course, that's what I've got my 375 Ruger for, although last year I did shoot a deer in Louisiana with the 375. Actually, it did a nice job with a cast bullet and 1900 fps. It didn't make the deer taste any better though. It's dang tough to beat corn fed, Iowa deer, when it comes to table fare.


    Good Luck to Ya on your hunts. (save some beans for the deer)

    I've killed coyotes out to 550 yards with my 264 Remington 700 with OEM stainless 26 inch long barrel using H4831SC! It also likes H1000
    I use the lesser priced Sierra spritzer 120 gr flat base bullets for varmits and nosler solids or partitions for Large game. My 264 is a Low recoil gun.
    Also use a very accurate Win 70 300 win mag and H4831SC for long range but had to get it magna ported so as too get recoil manageable using 180 gr bullets. (side blast is excessive from the 300 mag and have to be VERY careful of bystanders getting their caps or ears blown off if they are within the side blast area of the magnaport gas)
    Keep a heads up for: Some states hunti9ng reg's: a 270 is minimum caliber allowed for elk, therefore the 264 even thou its a magnum would not meet restrictions. Don't seem right.
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