red dot 38 special

varian

a friend gave me a box of old shooting times and guns and ammo magazines the other day. there are several references to using 5 grains of red dot for short barrel 38 special loads with a 158 swc. looking thru several of my reloading manuals this seems a bit stiff to me. jeff cooper referenced this load several times as being "best" for a 2 inch 38. what say you guys?

charliemeyer007

Seems way on the hot side to me. My old Lyman cast bullet book list 3.9 grains of RedDot with a 158 gr cast bullet as max. Bullseye was 3.7 gr max and produced a little less velocity and pressure. 5.1 grains of Unique max produced more velocity and pressure. Barrel length 7.71" on the pressure gun.

I run W 231 in my 2" now, but I have used Bullseye, Unique, and RedDot in the past in my longer barrel 38's.

dcs shooters

My go to load for the 158SWC is 5.0gr Unique.
It shoots good in a 6" or 2" [;)]

Hawk Carse

Five grains of Red Dot and a 160 gr bullet is more than "a bit stiff." Somewhere between +P+ and a really gross overload.

What Jeff Cooper actually wrote when mentioning that load was, "I will be accused of contributing to the delinquency of handloaders..."

PA Shootist

A much-admired, by me and many others, gunwriter in the late '60's advocated the 5 grains of Red Dot powder over an inverted hollow-base wadcutter lead bullet (Hollow base forward) for use in snub-nosed .38 Special revolvers. I loaded and practiced with a lot of this brew and eventually ruined my steel-frame Smith & Wesson Chief's Special. I have no idea what the working pressures were, but I knew it was a "HOT" load.

noylj

Please remember that the rule in handloading is/was to load until you saw pressure signs and then back down.
When pressure transducers became available, the factories found that many of their CUP-certified loads were a bit too hot (seeing real time pressure trace showed pressure spikes and such that exceeded "safe" limits but wouldn't be picked up by crushing a piece of copper) and many reloaders found that the pet loads so many writers covered were way over pressure. Many of the rifle pet loads of the '40-'80s turned out to be in the 75+ ksi region.
Thus, don't use data from more than 20 years ago without a lot of care.

CapnMidnight

I have a S&W 38-44 Outdoorsman, that is the only 38 I shoot that load in.
W.D.

Riomouse911

That sounds like a .38/44 heavy duty loading...
I'll say it's best to follow the others' advice; use modern data. Most guns can be replaced if over-pressure loads are used and it goes kaboom, but very few fingers and eyes can...

243winxb

Alliant is showing 3.8 gr Red Dot for 38 special +P 158 gr Speer lswc. 846 fps in a 6" barrel. There bullet is soft swaged alloy. A cast bullet may be different?? But it is listed as +P

pip5255

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=158&shellid=27&bulletid=30

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=158&shellid=26&bulletid=30