Die ? for 308,223

hdcolt51

I have RCBS two die set for the 308 and Lee three die set for the 223
Iam getting small base dies for both should I also get taper crimp dies for them since I will be shooting them in AR style rifles.Also have some black tip 30-06 ammo that came in en blocs and some that the brass looks like it was pulled from a clothe belt would they be safe to shoot in my M1917.Used to shoot them in my Garand but know longer have it [:(] Thanks

jonk

The crimp is a good idea but hardly necessary. I rarely use mine. But it's nice to have on the shelf so I'd say get it.

AS for the black tip ammo, it's armor piercing 30-06. Yes, safe to shoot in your 1917; the 1917 will take anything that you can shove down it within reason of course, whereas the garand needs a very specific powder and bullet weight range.

dcs shooters

You need to crimp your reloads for AR'S, so you don't get bullet set back when they hit the feed ramp. I use a roll crimp on the bullets with a cannalure. For ones without them use a taper crimp.

CryptoChief

On bullets with the cannalure be careful not to use too heavy a crimp. It has been my experience that too heavy a crimp will open the neck of the case below the crimp ever so slightly and you will experience bullet wobble (bullet can actually be moved by hand while it sits in the case). I have always used a very slight taper crimp on my 223 and my 308 loads for my AR style rifles and for the M1A on all style bullets, cannalure or not and never had any problems.

CC

jtmarine0831

I use Lee Factory Crimp dies on 223, 308, 30-30, and30-06. They are collet style dies so it is harder to mess up a case, and trim length variation wont cause problems for you when trying to get a consistent crimp from round to round.

wsfiredude

+1 on the Lee crimp dies.

e8gm

I have fired 1000's of rounds of reloaded 308 from a match grade M1A and 100's of rounds from a match grade AR15 and have never crimped bullet for either. I have never experienced the bullet being "set back" from hitting the "feed ramp?" on those two rifles.

308plinkerVT

Ditto here - just make sure you are getting proper neck tension on your assembled rounds and have at. Many times I have come across fairly reliable info that has said that crimping hurts expected accuracy. Have also seen several references to the notion that rounds with a crimp are not "intended" for formal match purposes. Depends on how well your rifle shoots, how well you shoot your rifle which way to go there, and how much time you wish to invest in your reloading practises. I trust the no-crimp match ammo motto, but my loading practises are not standard approach/high-speed typical for high volume shooters, either.
Zedicker wrote a very good book if you haven't seen it yet - bunches of good info. Also mentions the alternative neck sizing method that I personally ascribe to.
Tubb and Sierra put out a good (dated) video too about accurate handloading.
Both sources have worlds of experience you can glean from.
SB dies are helpful (in my experience) if you are reloading once fired brass from a chamber that may be tighter than the one previously fired in. Might suggest looking into annealing too if you're going that route.
Typically FL dies should be adequate though, and now RCBS even sells a AR series die set, if you haven't run into it yet.
Always look at the source, and their intents, of any info.

amamnn

Small base dies are not necessary to load for factory rifles, auto, bolt, single shot, or lever. They are necessary when loading for custom chambered rifles cut smaller than SAAMI specs. Factory rifles that have been custom rebarreled could possibly require using samll base dies to form cases.

Folks thinking about loading for the 6mmBR Norma which Savage has begun to sell, might want to look at 6mmbr.com for guidance as to whether a small base die will be needed. SAAMI may have specs published recently on this cartridge, I don't have it in my SAAMI book of chambers and cartridges. The brass has apparently not been standardized.

Mobuck

"I have fired 1000's of rounds of reloaded 308 from a match grade M1A and 100's of rounds from a match grade AR15 and have never crimped bullet for either. I have never experienced the bullet being "set back" from hitting the "feed ramp?" on those two rifles."

Lucky you. Sooner or later you WILL have a bullet pushed back which may be disastrous.

"Small base dies are not necessary to load for factory rifles, auto, bolt, single shot, or lever. They are necessary when loading for custom chambered rifles cut smaller than SAAMI specs. Factory rifles that have been custom rebarreled could possibly require using samll base dies to form cases."

If you haven't found the need for small base sizer dies, you're in the minority.

cbyerly

The use of small base dies will only decrease the case life due to excessive sizing. If the rifle chambers with standard dies, use them.
I agree that crimping is not necessary for AR chambering.

armilite

quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
"I have fired 1000's of rounds of reloaded 308 from a match grade M1A and 100's of rounds from a match grade AR15 and have never crimped bullet for either. I have never experienced the bullet being "set back" from hitting the "feed ramp?" on those two rifles."

Lucky you. Sooner or later you WILL have a bullet pushed back which may be disastrous.

"Small base dies are not necessary to load for factory rifles, auto, bolt, single shot, or lever. They are necessary when loading for custom chambered rifles cut smaller than SAAMI specs. Factory rifles that have been custom rebarreled could possibly require using samll base dies to form cases."

If you haven't found the need for small base sizer dies, you're in the minority.


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