Annealing brass question

hadjii

When annealing brass is it imperative that the brass get glowing red to get proper annealing? The reason I ask is because I'm trying to anneal some 338 MX brass, and although I'm using MAP gas and a handheld torch, some of the brass just refuses to get hot enough to get red. Some do and some don't get red, so I'm just wondering.

Papernicker please explain your post. Your post tells me nothing. To the rest of the posters: Thank You.

charliemeyer007

Interesting. I don't think so. Often I use the about 800 degrees of the lead pot. Consistency would be my concern.

iceracerx

Brass anneals in seconds @ 800 F. It takes about an hour @ 600 F

If you want to use a hand held torch you might want to invest in temperature indicating crayons. They are around $16.oo at Grangers.

http://www.tempil.com/tempilstik/

waltermoe

This is how I have done it. I have a 3/4 inch drill, I take the side handle off and screw a bolt in it's place, then I put the bolt head in a vise to hold the drill. Put the brass in the chuck and hand tighten only, turn the brass while you hold the torch too it, when the brass just starts to turn red stop. I also keep the lighting low so I can see the brass turn color better. Make sure you use pliers when you go to remove the brass from the chuck, or if you do forget to use pliers you will not forget the second time.

papernicker

I would definitely learn what annealing is because that aint it.

B17-P51

I hold the head of the cartridge with my fingers, this assures the head will not get too hot. I do this in a darkened room. I slowly twist the brass in the flame of two torches crisscrossed till it glows slightly and evenly from the neck to about 1/8 to 1/4 inch below the shoulder. Then drop it in a pan of water that is under the torch flames. The quenching is very important. When a ferrous metal is heated and quenched it gets harder. When a non ferrous metal (brass) gets heated to around 675 to 700 degrees and quenched it gets softer. Do not let the head area of the brass get hot as this will soften the whole case and ruin it , hence holding it with my fingertips works very well for me.


This may help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Url1QguVhHE

I didn't make this video, but I could have as this is exactly what I do except I let it get a little hotter then drop the case in the bucket

I have also used the lead pot method with good results, setting the temperature around 680 to 700 degrees and following the rest of the above procedure.

62fuelie

I anneal brass after I clean it. I hold the case head in a pair of pliers (taped) and hold the case mouth in the flame of a propane torch right at the tip of the blue flame cone. I rotate the case and watch the case as it changes color. When the color reaches the shoulder I drop it in the water bucket. Not necessarily very scientific, but I have very few split case mouths if I do this every 3 to 5 loadings.

hadjii

Thank you all. I have had no problems with heating the brass to where the case neck just starts to turn reddish. That is with calibers smaller than 338. With this 338MX brass, I'm apparently not getting enough heat to get the effect I'm wanting, which is why I asked the question that I asked, but again, Thank you for your responses.

To papernicker...not so much.

bpost

If you are not in a darkish room you will get the brass way to hot and not see the red color come in. Any torch, propane is fine will work in seconds. If you are in a well lit room you are way overheating the brass. Try one light, as far away in the room as you can get it and work in the shadow. Holding the brass by the base with pliers apply the heat. Once it just starts to glow turn the case in the flame. You are done. Drop it into a bucket of water to cool it.

hadjii

Well. After watching several YouTube video segments, I've come to one conclusion. Take all the brass I've annealed thus far, and throw it out. It's probably all junk. I ordered a bottle of tempilac from midway yesterday, but I just had to try doing some more this morning after the information I got from here and youtube. The 375 ruger brass I did this morning looks like the brass I saw on YouTube videos, so I've definitely learned alot. Bpost, I think overheated would be an understatement compared to what my brass looks like from this morning. Dang it anyway. Live and learn I guess. Thanks everybody.

bigborefan

I have been using a Ken Light annealer for years now and if you do a lot of cartridge annealing, this is the only way to go. It's consistent and fast. Check out this Youtube video on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhqmnSZKDmE

yonson

There are a lot of opinions on what it takes to anneal brass cases. Doing it by color is risky. Referencing an article in Precision Shooting magazine from Feb. '99, here are some thoughts. Using a heat source capable of producing 700-800 degrees does not mean heating the brass to this temp. is a good idea, hence using a Tempilstik crayon will help. Using one that melts @ 400 F. will do. Make a line with it from shoulder to rim on the heated case body to track advancement of heat, it will darken. Direct quotes from the article: "Any case that has heated sufficiently to change the marker beyond about halfway down the case body should be destroyed and discarded". "Dropping annealed cases in cool water does nothing for the annealing process but it is necessary to kill the heat before the case head can become hot enough to lose its hardness". "NEVER USE ANY CASE YOU THINK MIGHT HAVE BEEN OVERHEATED IN THE CASE HEAD AREA". There are numerous ways to apply heat but controlling it is key.

charliemeyer007

Most excellent.

bpost

Don't be too hasty to toss that brass. Try some cast bullet loads to see if you can work harden it back to specs. A few cycles with cast loads should prove the case good or not. If you got he heads HOT, I would dump it as expanded primer pockets with primers falling out in your action are no fun.

hadjii

boost, the heads didn't get hot, as I had water about a quarter inch below the shoulder, but the necks are pretty dark. About all I shoot in my 338MX is cast bullets, loaded to about 1800 fps, so its a pretty mild load. I was looking at them, and I was thinking I would try a few just to see what happened. The 375 ruger brass I did this morning definitely looks better. I turned the flame down, and quit putting them in water while heating. Heated them just barely enough to where they were going to start to glow, and then removed the heat and quenched them in water. You can just see the line around the case where I stopped heating. When I get this tempilac from midway, then I'll check myself to see for sure how much heat I need.

Smitty500mag

One of the guys on the accuratereloading.com forum made an induction annealer to anneal his brass. He let it get hotter than needed so it would show up in the picture.

buddyb

I may have done it wrong,but when I made 30 Herret cases out of 30-30 cases I would put the case mouth and shoulder in molten lead in a Lee electric lead furnace and hold it in the lead until the case was hot enough that the lead would not stick to the case,and the pitch it in a 5 gallon bucket of water sitting on the floor several feet away from the molten lead.Never had any problem with split cases.

jonk

Basically the only cases I anneal are those that are too pricey to risk losing due to a neck split. Why? Well, unless you have a way to uniformly apply heat, you end up with inconsistent neck tension due to inconsistent heating.

When I bother, I have 2 torches set up with fan flame attachments, and I hold the case between them for a count of 4. Then quench.

Most folks over-anneal. You don't need to SEE a blue or red case neck to do the job. Just to get that case neck up to temp.

best defense

No, if the brass gets red, you have gone too far.
The brass only needs to get hot enough to change color. There are lots of videos on you tube on the procedure. Hope this helps.
quote:Originally posted by hadjii
When annealing brass is it imperative that the brass get glowing red to get proper annealing? The reason I ask is because I'm trying to anneal some 338 MX brass, and although I'm using MAP gas and a handheld torch, some of the brass just refuses to get hot enough to get red. Some do and some don't get red, so I'm just wondering.

Papernicker please explain your post. Your post tells me nothing. To the rest of the posters: Thank You.

JustC

this is the sure way of doing it right.


http://www.kenlightmfg.com/products.html

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/case-annealing/brass-case-neck-annealing-machine-sku749013958-97922-192375.aspx?cm_mmc=cse-_-Itwine-_-shopzilla-_-749-013-958&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=connexity&utm_campaign=itwine&utm_content=749-013-958


here is one I built from a bathroom fan motor and a rheostat. The 3 different casehead dia holders were made from aluminum at a local machine shop. These don't have to be to exact tolerances since all they do is allow the case to sit in them without you having to hold them by hand.

5mmgunguy

Ken Light annealer is the only way to go! But its not cheap.