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Mannlicher rifles?

Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭✭
I always glass bed and float the barrel and look for a very accurate reload on my hunting refiles so as any change in the stock pressure will have minimum effect on the Point of Impact.

I've seen NON bedded guns that would shift the POI several inches )6 inches or more at 100 yards) just from weather changes or removing and re-installing a non bedded floated barrel stock.
I always suspected guy could encounter all kinds of accuracy problems and Point of Impact shift with a Mannlicher stock gun.

I like the looks of guns with Mannlicher stocks but just kinda figured having one would be in same category as being married to a real pretty women that had a headache all time, ONLY good for looking at.

Comments

  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    Thats why I usually bed full length the complete length of those type of stocks..
  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    Thats why I usually bed full length the complete length of those type of stocks..bed
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mrbruce
    Thats why I usually bed full length the complete length of those type of stocks..bed


    I've tried that with regular stocks and not float the barrel, added pressure points, etc, and ALWAYS found the most accurate and consistent accuracy is with a free floated barrel, but most always have to reload to find what the barrel wants after it's free floated.

    A non-free floated barrel has more of a tendency to shift point of impact as the barrel heats and cools.

    Why I doubt I could ever trust a Mannlicher type rifle for long range hunting accuracy.
  • swearengineswearengine Member Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At least I know you won't be bidding against me. I have tons of experience with Mannlicher stocked rifles.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's a nice looking rifle.

    Back in the 70's I had a buddy with a 25-05 in a Remington with a maple stock. It shot really good as long as he kept the wood away from the barrel. It was hog out really bad on the right side of the barrel channel, from keeping the wood away. I used LinSpeed to seal the magazine well. I also sealed the butt plate zone and all the screw holes with using the oil thinned a little and a q-tip. It never moved after that - he was happy.

    I used MicroBed on a lot of rifles. Some like it scraped out to a very thin layer (full free floating) others didn't care. I like a few pounds of up pressure and usually start there. ProTip Rig grease will soften the epoxy over time. Release Agent is your friend.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
    That's a nice looking rifle.

    Back in the 70's I had a buddy with a 25-05 in a Remington with a maple stock. It shot really good as long as he kept the wood away from the barrel. It was hog out really bad on the right side of the barrel channel, from keeping the wood away. I used LinSpeed to seal the magazine well. I also sealed the butt plate zone and all the screw holes with using the oil thinned a little and a q-tip. It never moved after that - he was happy.

    I used MicroBed on a lot of rifles. Some like it scraped out to a very thin layer (full free floating) others didn't care. I like a few pounds of up pressure and usually start there. ProTip Rig grease will soften the epoxy over time. Release Agent is your friend.


    Up-pressure on a barrel: I've found that pressure point on a barrel will usually result in a barrel averaging shooting different grain weights of ammo better but a free floated barrel WILL result in more consistent groups when the correct reload is found for what the barrel wants. When experimenting with pressure points I would use a weight of bathroom scale and when the desired pressure was indicated on the scale or using a weight I would then use a shim to hole the pressure in place. I've never found a barrel yet that would group better consistently better than a free floated barrel once the correct re-load (recipe was found for a free floated barrel.

    After I get a rifle properly glass bedded and the barrel free floated I can remove the action from the stock and re-install the stock and the rifle POI is still very very close to or the same as before I removed the stock. I also free float and glass bed my Synthetic stocked rifles, not because of stock warping but to give the rifle action a stable place to rest after each shot..

    I've relieved some wood stocks that had the pressure you indicate on the side of the barrel and after floating the barrel for about thickness of 2 sheets of paper and glass bedding the receiver area the stocks barrel channel even after the wood sealed would gradually warp and touch the barrel again and require relieving again later.
    Seen couple stocks that appeared I might have to install (glass in) piece of steel rod to keep them from continuous warping but they eventually stopped warping. When a barrel channel stars warping sideways the wood at the fore end tip will start to get thinner on one side and don't look neat.

    AND a normal layer of glass bedding down the length of a wood stock will not keep the stock from warping if it wants too because the thin layer of glass epoxy won't have enough strength to keep a long barrel channel from warping . Try bending a piece of glass bedding and you will get the strength warp idea of what I'm referring.

    AND a Mannlicher stocked rifle has lots of wood to warp different directions at the barrel channel and then the barrel is anchored to the wood at the front sight area of the barrel.

    Mannlicher stocks are nice to look at, but not my thing as a good long range accurate hunting rifle.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I always glass bed and float the barrel and look for a very accurate reload on my hunting refiles so as any change in the stock pressure will have minimum effect on the Point of Impact.

    I've seen NON bedded guns that would shift the POI several inches )6 inches or more at 100 yards) just from weather changes or removing and re-installing a non bedded floated barrel stock.
    I always suspected guy could encounter all kinds of accuracy problems and Point of Impact shift with a Mannlicher stock gun.

    I like the looks of guns with Mannlicher stocks but just kinda figured having one would be in same category as being married to a real pretty women that had a headache all time, ONLY good for looking at.

    quote:AND a Mannlicher stocked rifle has lots of wood to warp different directions at the barrel channel and then the barrel is anchored to the wood at the front sight area of the barrel.

    Mannlicher stocks are nice to look at, but not my thing as a good long range accurate hunting rifle.

    First and foremost, a Mannlicher stocked rifle is not meant to be a 'long range hunting rifle'. If long range hunting is what you chose to enjoy, pick another, more appropriately designed rifle meant for long range hunting.

    Second, the barrel steel of yesteryear was good but not great such as what we have available now. Most of the barrels were not stress relieved and would move frequently as it heated or cooled.

    Third, there are five points at which this design can create a problem with any rifle in particular.

    The long slender forearm is the most obvious.

    The nose cap which may or may not play a part in this design.

    A barrel band which may or may not be a part of this design.

    There is also the possibility of a barrel wedge.

    Another style of barrel band which accommodates the sling swivel.

    When building this style of rifle stock, it's imperative that you consider all the possible points of contact. The forearm is the most obvious and can wreak the most havoc on an unprepared rifle shot. Generally, relieving the contact will alleviate problems but as pointed out, it is mandatory that ALL of the exposed wood surfaces be sealed with thinned glass bedding or a thinned epoxy compound. This includes under the recoil pad and the magazine cutout besides the action and barrel channel. Even the screw holes should be sealed carefully. Moisture seeping into unprotected wood will allow it to warp as it warms and cools.

    The nose cap can a decoration or on older designs a method of protecting the front of the stock and barrel. The point at which it contacts the barrel can be relieved in which case it stops being a pressure point but still protect the stock at its most fragile point.

    Barrel bands came in two styles:

    One which surrounded the barrel and the outside of the forearm.

    One which surrounded the barrel but became a point of attachment inside the forearm such as the sling swivel or tensioning screw.

    Barrel wedges were a carry over from the older black powder muzzle loaders. The loop was integral with the barrel while the ports for the wedge were on the outside of the forearm. The wedge matched up to the loop inside the barrel channel and pulled the barrel down into place.

    These features often can be relieved then bedded properly and tension free.

    Once this idea of stress free is employed where all the points of contact exist, it's extremely possible that the rifle will shoot accurately with tested loads. We used to create these stocks frequently and always managed to get them to shoot well under an inch at 100 yards with developed loads. But there was never a thought to use them outside of their proper area. We knew better than to try for records at 600 or 1,000 yards[:D] or try for a 100, 200 or 300 yard benchrest record. These are hunting rifles, not long range target riles.

    Best.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Very good and

    Yep, that's what I suspected.[;)]
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