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Reloading....30-06 with H-414

kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
Anybody use H-414 with 30-06? I have used it recently as I am starting to reload and had some great results with it and wanted to see what others results are.

I'm using Perfecta brass, WLR primers, hornady 150 grain soft pointed bullets over 54 grains of H-414.

1903a3 spotter, GI two groove barrel cut down to 20 inches, barrel free floated, action bedded, timmney trigger, Redfield Revolution 4-12?40.

I'm getting 0.91 inch groups (5 shots) at 100 yards.

Anybody else have results like this using this powder.

Comments

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    mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Many of these rifles show a preference for 147 gr Winchester Super X or 168 gr hollow point boat tails...

    In my experience the 147 gr as a component of your handload recipe should provide you with superior results

    IMHO

    Mike
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    navc130navc130 Member Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    INTERESTING. Guess that shows the Army was right; The two groove barrel gives the same performance as the four groove barrel. How is the muzzle blast of a twenty inch barrel? I have a 03 sporter with a twenty inch barrel that I have never shot.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by navc130
    INTERESTING. Guess that shows the Army was right; The two groove barrel gives the same performance as the four groove barrel. How is the muzzle blast of a twenty inch barrel? I have a 03 sporter with a twenty inch barrel that I have never shot.


    The muzzle blast is really not anything I notice or consider to be any louder than my M-1...of course I'm concentrating on everything but noise and wear very good hearing protection.

    The 150s I'm shooting are a flat base bullet.
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sub one inch is a good start. I like Hornady bullets but I tend towards heavier boattails.

    I don't think I have shot any H-414, but I like the spherical stuff for metering.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah I think I might try some heavier bullets as I have heard good results with them. Up until this point I've always bought 150 grains because the modern 150s are good for anything I would want to hunt.
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    XXCrossXXCross Member Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FYI H414 is the same powder as the discontinued Winchester 760.
    I burned a lot of it in a7mm mauser and had excellent results.
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    TfloggerTflogger Member Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by XXCross

    FYI H414 is the same powder as the discontinued Winchester 760.
    I burned a lot of it in a7mm mauser and had excellent results.

    Worked well with 8x57 and 7.62x54r also.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tflogger
    quote:Originally posted by XXCross

    FYI H414 is the same powder as the discontinued Winchester 760.
    I burned a lot of it in a7mm mauser and had excellent results.

    Worked well with 8x57 and 7.62x54r also.


    So I'm told...this is the first powder I have used and got it from a trusted friend who was using it for his M-38
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    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Anybody use H-414 with 30-06? I have used it recently as I am starting to reload and had some great results with it and wanted to see what others results are.

    I'm using Perfecta brass, WLR primers, hornady 150 grain soft pointed bullets over 54 grains of H-414.

    1903a3 spotter, GI two groove barrel cut down to 20 inches, barrel free floated, action bedded, timmney trigger, Redfield Revolution 4-12?40.

    I'm getting 0.91 inch groups (5 shots) at 100 yards.

    Anybody else have results like this using this powder.

    Usually we all try to get tested reloading information from a qualified source before we put our respective faces behind the bolt. It's just good sound common sense. Using a powder which is familiar to another reloader you trust qualifies under most circumstances.

    In your example using H-414, you're at the lowest end of the scale for pressure and velocity, which is not a bad thing. But it's certainly a place to start from and move forward in order to investigate what might be attained through better load density and burn rate. Too often reloaders get complacent when they stumble onto a reasonably accurate load at the beginning of a test.

    In your situation, H-414 is not and will not yield a full case which often contributes to lesser accuracy because of the powder position in the case. In a less than full case, the burning powder is inconsistent as compared to a full case. This is magnified when hunting or shooting in cold weather, especially with ball powder. The other point to this part is that it is an inefficient load which means that you're pushing powder out the muzzle before it gets burned. It doesn't contribute to the velocity all all, it's simply wasted.

    Personally, when I'm shooting .30-06 with lighter bullets, I have found that H-Hybrid 100V works about the best that can be expected. You can achieve a complete burn in a short barrel yet produce higher velocities, resulting in more energy which is useful when hunting. The case is also full.

    Other powders to test include Re-16 & 17, Norma URP and VVN-550 which is a double base powder and will yield the highest velocities. All of these will fill the case and get you a significant increase in velocity while working in the moderate zone of pressure. All of these manufacturers have reloading data online.

    We tested some surplus 2-groove barrels quite a while back and found very reasonable accuracy when compared to other, modern barrels with 3-, 4-, 5- and 6-groove barrels. The military had selected the 2-groove to improve production times while maintaining the need for field accuracy and found success using this formula of land to groove ratio.

    Best.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense

    quote:Anybody use H-414 with 30-06? I have used it recently as I am starting to reload and had some great results with it and wanted to see what others results are.

    I'm using Perfecta brass, WLR primers, hornady 150 grain soft pointed bullets over 54 grains of H-414.

    1903a3 spotter, GI two groove barrel cut down to 20 inches, barrel free floated, action bedded, timmney trigger, Redfield Revolution 4-12?40.

    I'm getting 0.91 inch groups (5 shots) at 100 yards.

    Anybody else have results like this using this powder.

    Usually we all try to get tested reloading information from a qualified source before we put our respective faces behind the bolt. It's just good sound common sense. Using a powder which is familiar to another reloader you trust qualifies under most circumstances.

    In your example using H-414, you're at the lowest end of the scale for pressure and velocity, which is not a bad thing. But it's certainly a place to start from and move forward in order to investigate what might be attained through better load density and burn rate. Too often reloaders get complacent when they stumble onto a reasonably accurate load at the beginning of a test.

    In your situation, H-414 is not and will not yield a full case which often contributes to lesser accuracy because of the powder position in the case. In a less than full case, the burning powder is inconsistent as compared to a full case. This is magnified when hunting or shooting in cold weather, especially with ball powder. The other point to this part is that it is an inefficient load which means that you're pushing powder out the muzzle before it gets burned. It doesn't contribute to the velocity all all, it's simply wasted.

    Personally, when I'm shooting .30-06 with lighter bullets, I have found that H-Hybrid 100V works about the best that can be expected. You can achieve a complete burn in a short barrel yet produce higher velocities, resulting in more energy which is useful when hunting. The case is also full.

    Other powders to test include Re-16 & 17, Norma URP and VVN-550 which is a double base powder and will yield the highest velocities. All of these will fill the case and get you a significant increase in velocity while working in the moderate zone of pressure. All of these manufacturers have reloading data online.

    We tested some surplus 2-groove barrels quite a while back and found very reasonable accuracy when compared to other, modern barrels with 3-, 4-, 5- and 6-groove barrels. The military had selected the 2-groove to improve production times while maintaining the need for field accuracy and found success using this formula of land to groove ratio.

    Best.




    Thanks for the info...i will definitely look into the powders you mentioned above. Would you be willing to reccomend some good manuals that cover a wide range of 30-06 bullets and powders?

    I've run out of the hornady bullets my friends gave me and the H-414....so it's as good a time as other to start some new experiments.

    I'm looking for some powders that will not be very temperature sensitive as I shoot and hunt in areas that have as much as 100 degrees of temperature swing between summer and winter.
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    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Re-16 and Hybrid 100V are two that aren't temp sensitive.

    Most of the powder manufacturers have good websites for the reloaders to reference. Hodgdon's is very good for the most part since they cover H, IMR, and Winchester powders.

    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/node

    https://load-data.nosler.com/

    I think you can move up to the 168 gr. bullets to see a slightly broader selection from a few more manufacturers.

    Best.
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    Grunt2Grunt2 Member Posts: 2,525 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My best 3006 load is 58.8gr of H414 behind a Hornady 150gr SST...Chronograph AV is 3108FPS...No pressure signs and 1/2" groups at 100yds...Winchester 670 rebarreled with a new model 70 barrel...I would work up to it just to be on the safe side...Good luck!
    Retired LEO
    Combat Vet VN
    D.A.V Life Member
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    Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You WILL BE surprised at how much more the recoil is when you go from a 150g bullet to a 180gr bullet.

    I get really good accuracy out of the 30;06 and 150 gr bullets.

    Usually below 150 gr bullet and the groups start opening up on a standard twist barrel.
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    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kidthatsirish,

    quote:You WILL BE surprised at how much more the recoil is when you go from a 150g bullet to a 180gr bullet.

    While true to a certain extent, recoil and the adverse effects of it can be mitigated by the stock design and how you choose to modify the stock with recoil pads and cheek pieces. A properly fitted stock can alleviate some of the worst potential from recoil.

    Choosing loads with the potential for more recoil can be helped by using a muzzle brake or even a suppressor. Now, if you don't happen to like muzzle brakes chose an alternative. Otherwise they can be the solution to a few accuracy and handling problems which are encountered.

    Best.
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    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Trivia from a packrat memory.
    When Hodgdon brought out H414, the banner headline on Guns & Ammo announced: "This may be the powder Winchester loads 180 grain .30-06 with!" Probably so, H414 being Hodgdon label on Winchester 760.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    kidthatsirish,

    quote:You WILL BE surprised at how much more the recoil is when you go from a 150g bullet to a 180gr bullet.

    While true to a certain extent, recoil and the adverse effects of it can be mitigated by the stock design and how you choose to modify the stock with recoil pads and cheek pieces. A properly fitted stock can alleviate some of the worst potential from recoil.

    Choosing loads with the potential for more recoil can be helped by using a muzzle brake or even a suppressor. Now, if you don't happen to like muzzle brakes chose an alternative. Otherwise they can be the solution to a few accuracy and handling problems which are encountered.

    Best.




    Fortunately while I am a new reloaded I'm no stranger to recoil. I have found that the biggest mitigating factor in felt recoil involves a solid stance/position, a good sling properly used and proper grip and placement of the butt into the pocket of the shoulder.

    I have fired plenty of 180 grain 300 win mag rounds like this with little I'll effect. That being said I do appreciate the friendly warning and heed it
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