In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options

7x61 Sharpe & Hart

AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
Just bought a Schultz & Larsen chambered for this cartridge. I have a part box of Norma 160 gr factory stuff I picked up at a gun show several years back. The original Norma loading was supposedly 160 gr @ 3100 fps!! I know Norma stuff is hot but that seems a little over the top. The 7mm Rem. Mag. is a bigger case and I have trouble getting 3100 FPS with a 140 without pushing the pressure envelope. I know there were 2 versions; the later one marked "Super". I seem to remember reading that the Super version was on a thinner case that held a little more powder to get higher velocity. I have cases for both versions but no empties of one version to weigh.

Anyway, anybody ever fooled around with this cartridge?

Comments

  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any pet load information? I've just acquired a Custom Mauser in 7x61 with 26 inch barrel. I'm guessing it's 1-12 Pitch as it appears slower than a 1-10 barrel I examined.
  • Options
    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Be aware the S&L was the rifle built for your cartridge. However .If I remember correctly that is a rear locking lug ACTION. Be careful on hot loads in your rifle it is a fine piece of workmanship but many were ruined trying to get the velocity that was claimed. Send a PM to nononsense and see what he has to say.
  • Options
    swearengineswearengine Member Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Norma claims are accurate. The Europeans have the idea that if you are too stupid to load their ammo in an unsafe firearm, you deserve to get hurt and will not pay damages. I have the S & L rifle that you have, it is very strong rifle. Well made!
  • Options
    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ambrose,

    I own a Model 65 from a while ago...

    The twist rate is 1:12" and yes the locking lugs are on the rear of the bolt. Yes, you can achieve 3100 fps. with the 160 hunting bullets and the newer 154 gr. hunting bullets. It's not magic, it's the powder choice. The cases don't stretch and the rifle will not disassemble itself upon firing.[:D] The cases are not thinner to my knowledge but the brass formulation was improved for the higher pressure of 58,000+ PSI.

    The ones I have fired and the one I own have all been well made and engineered. The cases do NOT stretch because of the rear lugs. This is fiction from the internet.

    I happen to like this cartridge even though it is substantially cheaper to shoot the 7mm Rem. Mag.

    Best.
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Picked up the rifle today; it's a model 54J. I've only ever seen one other Shultz & Larsen rifle and it's the model 65DL in .308 Norma Magnum that I own. The pictures of the model 54J have an ugly "sow-belly" look to the stock. For some reason, this one does not look like that. It's a beautifully crafted rifle in great condition. And it's quite interesting in that it has a single column magazine that has to be loaded from the bottom hinged floor plate. It cocks on about the last 1/2 inch of closing the bolt. I am a bit disturbed by the twist marking on the barrel; 1-14". That seems awfully slow to stabalise 160 gr bullets. But I'll soon know--I've got a part box of Norma factory ammo that's loaded with 160 gr Nosler partition bullets.
  • Options
    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ambrose,

    I did a little number crunching and it appears that the 1:14" twist might not be sufficient to stabilize the 160 grain Partitions. My calculations come up with about a 1:12.5" twist based on my readings. However, stranger things have happened so take a whack at shooting a couple just for the sake of experimentation.

    Best.
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    nononsense;

    I seem to be pretty well stocked on 7mm bullets so measured several different weights/brands. Speers are short for their weight with 160 gr spitzers @ 1.22" and 160 Grand Slams @ 1.21. What do your calculations indicate is the longest bullet that will stabilize in my 1-14"?

    BTW, the 160 Partitions in these loads appear to be the old style machine cut jackets if that makes a difference.
  • Options
    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ambrose,

    The older calculations indicate 1:12.9" for the Speer @ 1.22" length.

    In order to use the 1:14", I get the Sierra SP 140 grain @ 1.120" for stability.

    Best.
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, nononsense;

    I just got some cases from Midway and will try the Sierra 140's with IMR4350 and H4831. I think I'll try the 145 Speers, too, as they're pretty short. It would be a shame to have to stick with 120's and 130's in this big rifle. It's 10.5 lbs. and a 26" barrel. I would have thought since the 54J was designed for this cartridge and Norma made the ammunition, there would be compatibility. But, as you say, stranger things have happened and maybe it will work.
  • Options
    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    I found some information That said this was a Target Rifle model. Does that sound possible[?]
  • Options
    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    perry shooter,

    From the Schultz & Larsen:

    quote:Their first sporter was the 54J (made in 1954, J is for Jaeger
    or hunter) and came in calibres 7x61 S&H, .244 Rem, 6.5x55,
    .270 and 30-06. It had a straight stack magazine and was
    a very well made rifl e

    The article you might be referencing was about the 'Swing' rifle which was developed using a couple of features from the 54J but was a British project of George Swensen and Laurie Ingram (Sw+Ing).

    Ambrose,

    Hornady makes a neat round nose 154 grain bullet that might be a good match. H-4831 and IMR-7828 are the best direction.

    Best.
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    perry shooter,

    One of my references, The Bolt Action by Stuart Otteson, indicates that the model 54 was a match rifle and the 54J (with the J standing for hunting as noted by nononsense) is the rifle I have. They are different rifles with similar model numbers.

    And, nononsense,

    Thanks for reminding me of the 154 RN. Round nose bullets often group very well, the .30 cal. 220 Sierra is a good example. I guess I'm prejudiced towards spitzers unnecessarily. I'll see if I can find some of those Hornady RN.
  • Options
    pulsarncpulsarnc Member Posts: 6,321 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Someone did a write up on the rifles several years ago in either Rifle or Handloader magazine I will try to find it in my back issues and post it if I can .From what I remember they are top drawer rifles
    cry Havoc and let slip  the dogs of war..... 
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, I guess this is going to be phase II. At a gun show last Saturday, I came across a beautiful Shultz & Larsen model 65DL in 7x61 Sharpe & Hart. It is set up with an old Kollmorgen Bear Cub scope, has a 60 centimeter (23 5/8") barrel, and came with a set of RCBS dies from 1968, and 84 Norma cases. The brass is mixed with most of it the later stuff marked "Super" and the rest the earlier, thicker brass with the "Re" in the headstamp. The barrel is marked 1 in 10" twist and should stabilize the 160 gr factory loads that I have. The 54J that is of the origional posting has a 1 in 14" and the 160 gr. bullets yaw; a 4-shot group was 7"+ @ 100 yds (they do, however, clock pretty close to the 3100 fps). I'm putting together some cartridges with 160 and 154 gr bullets and look forward to getting to the range.
  • Options
    swearengineswearengine Member Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Enjoy! Both my wife and my mother-in-law shoot this cartridge also.
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Restarting my research on the 7x61, I dug out an old Speer reloading manual number 3, published in 1959. The first sentence in the write-up: "Some pretty giddy stuff has been written about the 7x61 Sharpe & Hart,--. I find that amusing.
Sign In or Register to comment.