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Varget vs N133 in 6BR
bpost
Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
I am using Varget now and pleased as punch with the accuracy. Some Benchrest guys lean towards Vit N133 in the 6BR. Has anyone shot this powder and seen something worth buying 2 pounds of the stuff?
Comments
I stopped using Varget about a year after is was released. It wasn't significantly better than the powders I am currently using. Even in the .308 for Palma, the Varget didn't come up to where I was working with a couple of other powders. But there are still quite a number of Palma shooters that burn up pound after pound of the Varget.
When used in the 6BR, Varget will yield a little better velocity as opposed to the V V N-133 but it will not burn as efficiently without going to a longer barrel than the V V N-133 requires. It also takes more Varget to get the slightly better (30 FPS) velocity than the N-133. Based on running both powders at the same pressure, this means that the Varget is slightly slower in burn rate than the N-133 and the N-133 is more efficient. In my experience, N-133 burns cleaner than the Varget and I think it's more consistant in performance.
Since N-133 works better in more cartridges for me, it's a no-brainer. But if you are expectiong a huge improvement in accuracy by switching to the N-133, I'd save your money. I think you could see some improvements but they aren't going to be huge, more like fine-tuning. Maybe you can find someone to go in on the purchase with you and if you don't like it your partner can buy you out.
Best.
ADDED:
I forgot to add this link regarding 6BR information:
www.6mmbr.com
There is a huge amount of information available on this website that specializes in the 6BR. There are load maps, bullet selections, technical articles, on and on.
My Encore has a 19.5 inch barrel with a 12 twist. MRBRUCE got the necks fixed on the brass for me. It seems to like lighter bullets. It does not show promise with 87 v-maxes.
Am I to understand that the short barrel I have might not like the VV N-133 BECAUSE it is a short barrel?
I don't mind getting some as I can always burn it up in plinker loads of another caliber.
No, that wasn't what I was trying to say, just the opposite actually.
The N-133 will work just fine in your 19.5" barrel when loaded with the lighter bullets that your twist rate will handle. The 87 gr. VMAX requires a 1:10" twist in order to stabilize. The 1:12" twist will work great with some of the 80 grain bullets but better with the 75 gr. and lighter. So the short barrel with light bullets and the N-133 should be a terrific combination.
If for some very odd reason it doesn't work, it will function in any one of several smaller capacity cases including the .308 Win. with lighter bullets.
Good luck!
ADDED:
My wording in the first response was confusing, sorry about that!
Thanks for the information. I'll grab a keg of it and give it a try to see if it can improve on the groups it shoots now. My Encore shot a 10 shot .352 group using the 75 V-maxes and 31.3 of Varget and CCI MAG Primers Wednesday morning.
I was testing my repaired GAMMA MASTER CHRONY and just kept shooting the same bull so I could figure out how to use the darn chrony properly. I was on the 8th shot before I realized how small the group really was. Squeezing the last two shots was tough to do!
Wait until you get your chubby little paws on the 66 gr flat base Fowlers I just ordered for my toys. Those and N-133 should get your heart double beating when you check the target
My 20 inch 1 in 14 6br XP-100 bench pistol just loves em.
I was just checking some other information and ran across this post by Jackie Schmidt (a benchrest expert) regarding the V V N-133 and a couple of other powders. I thought that you might enjoy reading it:
"I will give you an example of how cleanliness of a powder can be affected in the way it is used.
In short range Benchrest, N133 is one of the more popular powders. Many shooters shoot in in the lower load window at about 3250, and many shoot it in the upper window at 3400+. The difference in the pressure is probably 52,000 psi as opposed to 65,000+psi.
A good example of a low window shooter is Cecil Tucker. He gets great accuracy, and components last quite a while. But, after each group, he has to give the barrel a rigorous cleaning, often with JB, because the stuff burns pretty dirty down there. If he does not clean, or has to put too many shots down range during a match, accuracy will suffer.
Then there is the upper window shooters, like myself. My load is usually at 3400, and components such as brass and barrels, do take more of a beating. This is something that you have to learn to live with. But that stuff burns so clean up at that pressure, that usually, after two or three wet patches, there is no residue at all left in the barrel. I also do not suffer as much from carbon build up in front of the chamber. This is probably one reason I can get away with using nothing but Butches Bore Shine to clean with. I do not even own a jar of JB or ISSO.
Also, in Unlimited Shooting, where you might have to put as many as 15-17 rounds during the match, you do not want the agging capability to fall off any during the match.
I also found the same with N135 and Reloader-15. When shot at the higher pressures, there is very little left in the barrel. In fact, I found the Reloader-15 to be about the cleanest stuff I ever shot when I pushed those Berger 105 VLD's at 3000 fps. That is probably topping 65,000+ psi.
When I shot the Varget, Paul requested that I stay in the mid 2800 fps range. I found it to be quite dirty at that pressure. 6 or 7 wet patches would still have black residue on them.
I know that this is not scientific, and I am probably assuming some things that I have no way of proving. All I can go by is what the Rifle is telling me........jackie"
Could you post or e-mail me some of the loads you have tried with N133 and N135 with the 70-75 grain bullets. I will start low and watch real cloase on the load ladder for pressure signs.
Regards,
Bruce
No problem. I just ran in the door for a short bit and I'll get my notes out and send some stuff off later tonight.
Best.
Check your e-mail.
Best.