17 Remington - Resize 223 cases or Other?

dcloco

@ $30/100, 17 Rem cases are on the spendy side. Any choices for resizing another case?

dtknowles

Try a cheap experiment. Pick up some .223 range brass (free) those semiauto guys leave it lyeing around all the time. Lube it and run it in your 17 Rem sizing die. Measure the OAL length of the case, might need to be trimmed. Trim as required and seat bullet measure case neck outside diameter and compare to factory ammo. If neck outside diameter is significantly larger than factory ammo you will probably need to ream or turn the case necks. You could always do a chamber cast to see if you could use the cases with thick necks but you don't want to shoot ammo with too tight necks. The head stamp will be wrong, big deal. You will need to go through a similar process each time you change parent brass. If you already neck turn your cases (benchrest shooter)then this kind of case prep in no big deal. Nobody uses 17 cal for bench comp. How many 100 are you looking to make. For 5 x 100 $150 for factory brass vs. less than $75 for 5 x 100 once fired e-bay brass and a neck turner/reamer. If no reaming required it is a no brainer. Tool cost is mostly recoverable on resale. You could even buy, convert and resell brass to try to recoup some expense. If you are a scrounger you can probably fine a few hundred Lake City .223 brass in just a couple trips to the range. Fun Fun Fun

Tim

nononsense

dcloco,

The metals market is having too much fun at our expense. All of the metals are up significantly higher than a couple of years ago so it stands to reason that the brass market will stay high as well. Brass cases are a good investment from the standpoint of the number of times that each piece can reloaded. Careful load management can yield a dozen or more reloads per piece.

The simple way to look at this is to say that you can pay upfront by purchasing brass from a manufacturer or you can use your sweat equity by converting used or inexpensive brass. It just depends on whether you want to start shooting after reloading or (much simplified) make brass, load, fireform, clean and reload. Note that to achieve the factory version of the .17 Rem., you will need to use powder, bullets and primers to get that rendition. It's possible with some load development that this fireforming exercise can be accomplished while varmint hunting.

Here is a previously written explanation:

Historical Notes:

The 17 Remington was introduced in 1971 as a new caliber for Remington's 700 Series bolt action rifles. It is the smallest caliber centerfire rifle cartridge offered on a commercial basis to date. The case is based on the 223 Remington necked down to 17 caliber, with the shoulder moved back .087" to lengthen the neck while retaining the same shoulder angle. The 17 Remington is similar to, but not identical with the 17-223 wildcat developed about 1965. Experiment with the 17 caliber rifles go back to 1944 when P.O. Ackley, the well known gunsmith and experimenter, developed the 17 Ackley Bee based on necking down the improved 218 Bee case. There are a number of other 17 caliber wildcat cartridges made by necking down 22 caliber centerfire cases such as the 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Remington, etc. Remington , Ultra Light Arms, Wichita, and Sako offers rifles in this caliber.

General Comments:

The 17 Remington has had a steady, though unspectacular, sales record since its introduction. Its greatest drawback is that its a special purpose cartridge suited almost exclusively for varmint shooting. For the sportsman who wants a rifle only for that purpose, this is not a disadvantage, however those requiring a rifle for both varmint and deer hunting would be better served with some other caliber.

With the 25 grain hollow point bullet loaded by Remington and similar bullets available for handloading by Hornady, the 17 Remington must be rated as a short range varmint cartridge. On the other hand, it has certain advantages such as minimal recoil, ricochet probability, and a very flat trajectory due to the high initial velocity of over 4000 fps. Disadvantages include; rapid barrel fouling, extreme sensitivity to slight charge weight variation and limited component availability. Factory loaded ammunition is available only from Remington.

Source: Cartridges of the World


Good Luck!

dcloco

Thanks for the info and the history.

Varmints will be the use of the rifle.

nononsense

dcloco,

If you opt to use the once fired cases, you should consider cleaning and de-priming before adding in an annealing step to eliminate the minor work hardening that the cases have already achieved. If you don't want to include this step, make sure that you have a good lube on the neck before you start the sizing down. Size the neck and push the shoulder back a little at a time, testing for fit in the rifle's chamber.

You can also try fireforming with a small amount of faster powder and then fill the case to the base of the neck with corn meal or grits and cover with a small piece of TP to hold in the grits.

Resize the formed .17 Rem. case and check the neck diameter and neck wall thickness. The diameter of the chamber neck will determine whether you have to neck turn or not. If you neck turn you will need to check occasionally for a doughnut that can form on the inside of the case at the junction of the base of the neck and the top of shoulder.

Once finished, you'll have a custom set of cases that are formed just for your rifle.

Best.

dcloco

Thanks again.

I bought 200 cases @ 26.99/100 and 29.99/100...obviously, that is a lot, for me (I am cheap, I guess...compared to some calibers).

So, I am, well...er...sometimes, adept at making things...and willing to give it a go.

I did resize one 223 case directly with my 17 FL die, results were ok. Not great, but not bad. Definitely have some brass movement. I am using Imperial sizing die wax and will try Hornady wax as well.

Yes, I believe I will have to outside neck turn at the minimum. I do not have a small ball mic, but outside dimension of the 223 case is 0.006" larger than a factory 17 case.

dtknowles

I said before you would need to do a chamber case if the modified cases are larger in the neck than factory. I just thought of another way to check. Just measure a fired unsized case. When a cartridge is fired the case first expands to fit the chamber then when the pressure drops the case springs back some. If the neck of the fired case is larger than than a sized case with a bullet seated then the cases don't need to be reamed or turned. If the dimentions are close outside neck turning is a good idea because the neck will grow over time and turning can improve accuracy.

Tim

Highball

The cases won't fully form till you actually fire them.
.006, as you mentioned, is probably too big..not many chambers are that much bigger.
Measure a fired .17 case. Springback will be a thousands or so..If you have access to cerro-safe (Brownells) you can get a fairly precise
measurement of that neck area. The reason, of course, for not having oversize necks is that there needs to be room for the brass to expand, releasing the bullet. Too tight necks bind the bullet, creating pressure spikes that can blow an action...and the .17 is pretty critical to start with.
I use kapok (pillow filler) for my reduced loads..but each has their pro and cons.

dcloco

Thanks everybody. Will be 8-10 days before the rifle arrives.

I loaded 200 new rounds, with four different powders...all to factory dimensions, so that I will have 200 cases to measure from.

I have 1500 or so 223 cases....just need to work some brass after firing the rifle a bit and go from there.

THANKS for all the help. I will keep you posted.

Highball

Amazing. I wasn't plagerizing dtknowles post. However..I type with two fingers...and I guess it took awhile to type in my post. His post was not up when I started typing.

nononsense

Highball,

See, that's what happens when "us two fingered typers" try to keep up. We get left in the dust!

It takes me what seems like forever to to type some of these responses.

Repetition of good information is never wasted.

Best.

Highball

Yup..the real be ach is that the thought processes far outstripe the two-fingers business...and I tend to throw process 'c' right after process 'a'...jeeze !!

dtknowles

It helps the questioner if he can see two people agree on some of the basic recommendations. After all, this is the internet and some people will post stupidity posing as experts. High School lessons in touch typing have come in handy. I have had to do a lot of writing in my career. If you look at my posts you may find some typo's and misspellings. I am an enginear, enganeer, engineer. What happen to the automatic spelling corrector on this thing[:D]
Tim

Highball

Indeed...that is true. I have been shooting and reloading for 45 years...and tend to discard the smart0a** cracks and remarks out of hand.

You have pointed out something I don't think about much...the new guy, just starting. How does HE sift thru the chaff to get to the wheat ? The only way , I guess..reinforcement, as you mentioned, by several posters that appear to make sense.

Thanks for the 'heads up'.