In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
Tack Driver
the real fuzz
Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
I have a Remington 700 in .308. I shoot only hand loads out of it. I have a 6x24x50Seedler scope on it. I shoot at mostly long ranges and can put a half dollar over the pattern at 600yds. I moved in to shoot at 100yds and dialed the scope back bown and I can not shoot a group to save my life. Any suggestions cause this really bugs me.
Comments
What kind of groups are you actually getting at 100 yards, and when you go back out to 600 are those tight groups still there?
I'm as puzzled as you. Something in the scope??
It might, but only by pure chance. These aren't guided missles.
MY guess would be, and I'm sure someone far wiser will set me right if I'm off base on this, that an unstable bullet might increase from 1/2 moa at 50 yards to 1" at 100, then stablilize and maintain that moa at extended ranges. Yes??? No???
Your also mixing MOA with inches, it's better to stay in one or the other (preferably MOA).
As the OP is reporting good extended range groups, and poor close range groups, the suggestion to see what the groups look like at a slightly further distance will help to pin down the distance where his combo is settling down at.
"...as opposed to 'the fake fuzz'?"
There can be a multitude of things that contribute to producing good groups at 600 yards and poor groups at 100 yards.
Has this happened more than once and with the same results? Are the results similar and repeatable? Consistancy in failure is a good basis for diagnosis.
Are you shooting the same ammunition at 600 as you are at 100? I have different ammunition for different yardages.
Have you checked the scope by shooting a square on a target at both ranges or at an intermediate range? This is the test to prove whether the scope is good or bad throughout the range of magnification and if it is repeatable or inconsistant.
Have you changed the scope magnification during the shooting of a group at any yardage. This is a further test of the scope.
Are you affected by the idea of "aim small, miss small"? Seriously. We sometimes work harder when we shoot at small targets at longer ranges, more and better concentration. Doubtful but a possibility.
Until you can come up with some more information and test results, we can only guess. Let us know what you come with after some testing.
Best.
RCrosby,
Bullets can be slightly unstable as they leave a muzzle and stabilze at a distance away from that muzzle. A dreidel, top or gyroscope does the same thing at the beginning of its spinning travels. You need to read this article which is long and somewhat complicated but greatly worth the effort by the understanding of exterior ballistics that you can attain. Pay special attention to Precession and Nutation. There are diagrams that help explain the wording and math.
http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/
Best.
I'll be downloading and reading the article you referenced this evening. I'll let you know what I think.
The gyroscope concept certainly adds a new dimension. So much to learn!
Thanks for the feedback.
You should enjoy it, there's lots of detail and explanations.
the real fuzz,
Tailgunner1954 mentioned target groups getting tighter as distances increase which many of us have seen. I just found this example which was shot with a 25 Souper loaded with 117 gr. Sierras:
great article. I've got it on my "favorite places" list as I wouldn't pretend to understand everything in it on the first go through.
I did get enough to understand the logic of bullets creating smaller groups at greater distances.
Until I fully understand it, though, I'd be most interested in your take as to the application of this information to a rifle shooting .2 moa at 600 yards but not grouping well at 100. As you interpret the info, for example, would it account for bullets clustering at, say 1 moa at 100 yards and settling in to .2 moa at 600?
We still don't know how bad those 100 yard groups were, or how many times the example was repeated, but it just seems that we may be dealing with smaller rather than larger scale phenomonon. Yes? No?
Actually, I'm not convinced that this particular problem has anything to do with Precession or Nutation yet. It's a potential contributing factor but we haven't been given enough information to make a qualified determination of the complete problem. When the poster shoots some tests and reports back with the results, maybe we can start to see some justifiable causes. Until then, it's nothing but guessing. I'm waiting for more information.
I'm glad you liked the article and yes it does take a few read throughs to get the jist of most of the information. I still go back over it every so often just to refresh my memory.
Best.
I tried using your e-mail but it failed.
Have you had a chance to test for the BDC knobs being the problem? No
pressure but I'd like to hear back from you about any new assessment of your problem. Post the information if you have the chance.
Thanks!
the real fuzz,
I tried using your e-mail but it failed.
Have you had a chance to test for the BDC knobs being the problem? No
pressure but I'd like to hear back from you about any new assessment of your problem. Post the information if you have the chance.
Thanks!
I took the BDC off the scope and sent them back and they called me and said that the marks on the lw wnd were off and each was off alittle bit more than the previous. So I got new ones and no more problems. [:)]
Excellent in all ways!
The manufacturer standing behind both you and their product.
Customer service handling your problem correctly.
You get a satisfactory solution that really works.
Thanks for letting us know the outcome!
Best.