I'm not the only one am I?

37rangemaster

I'm not the only one having trouble with winchester brass am i? i posted before about how my savage .220 swift splits/cracks the necks and most of the people said my load was too hot...37.1 grains of 4064 with a 55 grain PSP....well now i'm having the same problem with my remington model 700 .300 win-mag after only 2-3 reloadings..i'd expect the belt to come apart before the necks crack!?...i'm 2.5 grains BELOW the max load of 76 grains of R22...niether rifle shows signs of excess pressure trim length is correct...anyone else having trouble? what brand of brass is everyone using and having success with?

dcloco

Hmmm...kind of odd.

Setting dies up correctly?

Inside AND outside chamferring case necks?

Cases trimmed to correct length?

37rangemaster

yep cases trimmed to 2.61" and do not excede 2.62" (those are the numbers if memory serves me correct)...the cracks are right where the shoulder meets the neck..you can tell that gas escaped due to the black fouling on the ouside of the case and can see light through the case(the cracks are not that big at all but enough to see daylight) tonight i fired a round and looked at the case and it had 4 of those small cracks!...dies are setup according to RCBS instructions...i'm going to try anealing them and see if that helps...even though i hate trimming brass[xx(]

sandwarrior

37rangemaster,

I've had that problem with other brass but generally not Winchester. Who knows, you could have gotten two bad batches in a row. It could also be that if it is splitting around the neck where it meets the shoulder it could be a headspace problem created by too much shoulder setback when resizing. What I have always gotten with loads that were too hot or cases loaded too many times is a longitudinal flame cut that goes in line with the case on the neck. It looks like a crack but it is a flame cut.

My guess is if you can anneal the brass do so and see what it does from there.

Also, I have read many times that Winchester make their brass thinner than other makers. It's always weighed really close to other brass of smae caliber for me though. Try a different make of brass if you can get some. I don't know if that is true or not. But, if the brass keeps getting worked too much around the neck it stands the chance of getting a flame cut where it weakens.

jimbowby

[8D]-Just off the top, 37 you sound like you know what you're doing, an added question-are you lubeing the case necks[?][?]-could be causing a depression in the shoulder/neck and that can weaken the Westinghouse brass!![:o)][:o)]--JIMBO

37rangemaster

yes i am lubing the necks...i went out and did the candle soot test after raising the sizing die up by 1/16" but it didnt tell me if i had any pressure on the cases because most of the soot would rub off while chambering and ejecting the shell...i did however find out that i needed to seat the bullet deeper (was never hard to chamber a round before but who knows) so maybe that will fix my problems

dcloco

Keep going back to this...

Is the chamber clean? Bolt face?

remington nut

i did however find out that i needed to seat the bullet deeper (was never hard to chamber a round before but who knows) so maybe that will fix my problems sounds like the enough pressure to blow the neck with a little extra headspace??

37rangemaster

chamber is clean as well as the bolt face...i was out shooting this afternoon sighting the rifle back in after i put the burris zee rings on...i seated the bullets in further this morning and that seems to of helped (so far at least) fired about 15 rds and i dont think i had any that cracked (have to inspect them a little closer to make sure)...i thought i had run out of adjustment on my burris scope as it was still 1.5" to the right and the adjustment knob wouldnt turn so i came back home and decided to try turning it again using a dime this time and what do ya know it turns...so i turned it 6 clicks which should get me pretty close i'm not used to the double springs that burris uses on the adjustments knobs[:I]....


one other question how do you guys measure how far the bullet is off of the lands? i'm sure i'm doing it the hard way by using an empty case and bullet and then chambering it and ejecting it and inspecting it for land marks and keep on making small adjustments until the marks go away...there must be a easier way of doing this no?

sandwarrior

37rangemaster,

I use the stoney point bullet depth gauge. It's an aluminum tube with a plastic rod in it. You buy a case for each caliber and screw the case of the caliber you are measuring onto the tube. Put a bullet in the neck of the case with the rod inserted through the tube and case up to the bullet. With the tube, seat the case all the way up into the chamber. Then take the rod and push the bullet up untill it meets the lands. There is a screw on the back of the tube that locks the rod. Measure the bullet you are measuring for to the bottom of the case and that is your max OAL(remember...for that bullet, i.e. a Sierra 55 gr. will be different than a Rem 55 gr. PSP).

If you are checking by chambering a bullet and measuring land marks remember to check with a clear unmarked bullet on your last run to verify you are off the lands. This method isn't always exact and it dings up a lot of bullets. Remember the preferred safe method is that you use bullets in un-primed, un-powdered cases. You can then pull these and use them for initial sight in at 25 yds. -good luck

Highball

Use the Stoney Point bullet Comparator to check OAL...measuring to bullet tip can give 20-30 thousands differences.

The Comparator will allow using other bullets without rechecking in the rifle...just set the die to give the same 2.oowhatever the master checked round is.

You are measuring to the Ojive..the part of the bullet that engraves the rifling first.

The only reason to measure base of cartridge to bullet tip is for magazine feeding.

dcloco

quote:Originally posted by Highball


The Comparator will allow using other bullets without rechecking in the rifle...just set the die to give the same 2.oowhatever the master checked round is.



I believe you need to measure every brand of bullet. The ogive is different on every style. The range that I have seen - 35 gr VMax to 69 gr HPBT's, is substantial.

Extreme pressure can happen if you are jamming bullets in the lands too far.

use enough gun

good information here guys keep it coming[8D]

Highball

The Comparator is bored to a specific hole diameter.

Once you have used the Stoney Point depth gauge properly, and pushed the bullet into engagement with the rifling..you use the Comparator on your calipers to set your master OAl.

It makes no difference what the Ojive is at this point...because the bullet will enter the Comparator only as far as the hole diameter. The amount of bullet forward of the Ojive matters only for magazine feeding.
A round nose bullet will STILL be set to maximum throat engagement as will the Spitzer needlenose wizbang...The difference being the TOTAL OAL....once again, magazine feeding is different then single loading.

blackmesarifleco

It really sound like you getting a lot of help so I'll just add a few notes. First is there a bulge in the brass just above the base after being fired. Assuming the chamber size is correct, this is an indication of the brass being made under sized from the factory and with working the brass to resize it makes it brittle the annealing with help this but only anneal the shoulder and up. Next about the bullet seat depth the comparators are good for consistency based on the ogive but unless you individually test each brand of bullets as to where they touch the rifling lands you don't know where to start. If the bullet is jambed into the lands it can cause chamber pressure problems thus stressing the brass, however I also incountered that on long bullets and higher velocities that seating the bullet deep enough into the case to stay out of the lands also caused pressure problems that a different brand of bullet of the same weight did not. Last a easy check to if your resizing dies are right is to resize one that has been fired through that gun. Then make sure it chambers easily, then put a piece of the white masking tape on the base neatly and try chambering it again to see if the bolt closes harder. This process is like checking the headspace yet it tells how far the shoulder is set back during resizing and the more it is worked again it becomes more brittle.

JustC

a comparator is almost a must when loading different pills. As stated, the Ogive is the point at which the bullet reaches full caliber diameter. Therefore, when switching bullets, you simply set the die to seat the new bullet at the same measurement on the comparator as the original bullet, and you KNOW you are the exact same distance from the lands with the new bullet. The nose length or shape makes NO difference at all.

blackmesarifleco

To correct the moderator the ogive is not the point where the bullet reaches bore diameter, but the curve of the bullet nose and the point of bore diameter is just one point used to figure ogive, check out http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/bullets_ballastics/throat_angles.htm. Another thing is that due to different shapes length and ogives you don't set the bullets the same as other things have to be considered like minimum seating depth and OAL(or maximum functionable length as some load them longer than OAL) To set every bullet the same length as stated what bullet are you comparing it to. Some factory loads are very safely under dimensions and not your most accurate outcome and it does matter in length as some have such a long taper in the ogive that to set them all the same maybe to long to feed properly. Once you know where your lands hit one particular bullet for sure your comparator will work as long as you make sure you seat your minimum depth for shorter bullets and take regard to the OAL or what is capable of functioning in each separate firearm.

GUNFUNCO

Two Thoughts-

#1-Tha doesn't surprise me, I have posted here before about inferior Winchester ammo and components.

#2-Try Remington or Federal and see if you get the same results.