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.22 CB ammo - help

ZinderblocZinderbloc Member Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭
I work summers at a camp that has an outdoor shooting range . The campers shoot .22 bolt action rifles. Over the years I have noticed a problem and I hope someone can help.

We use Remington target ammo in our rifles. The campers start shooting at age 9 (boys & girls). The problem is the noise of the Remington ammo - the littlest kids are bothered by it.

Last summer we bought some CCI brand CB caps - much quieter! Trouble is, CCI puts a waxy coat on the bullets and this was a problem in last summer's heat. The wax got sticky and the rounds would not chamber smoothly.

I need help. Does anyone know of another brand of CB caps, other than CCI and Federal? Does Federal use the same kind of wax?
Is there another brand of quiet ammo? Any suggestions would be welcome.

BTW -
"Remington subsonic" - tried them, nearly as loud.
"ear protection, duh!" - available, kids won't wear 'em in the heat & the muffs interfere with the stock (prone).

Comments

  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,815
    edited November -1
    I would skip the CB caps, and try using 22 shorts instead.
    Agullia has a slow mover, specialty round that should be very quite also, it is the same OAL as a 22LR, but it is built on a 22 Short case (bullet is very long).

    Whittemore
    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
  • eastwood44mageastwood44mag Member Posts: 2,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll second the motion on Aguila (sp?). Their shells use gas, rather than powder, so there's much less residue to clean up. They're subsonic, so you only hear the hammer strike.

    O Lord,
    grant me the Serenity
    to accept the things
    I cannot change
    the courage to change the things I can,
    and the supreme firepower to make the difference.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: Their shells use gas, rather than powder, so there's much less residue to clean up. They're subsonic, so you only hear the hammer strike.


    ok you say so

    reloaderror.jpg
  • bperdue21bperdue21 Member Posts: 1,457 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    if the kids won't wear the protection, they shouldn't be shooting. get ear plugs or sell the 22's and get bb guns. it isn't really the proper way to teach children to shoot without ear protection.

    I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
  • ItGoBangItGoBang Member Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They all should have EAR and EYE PROTECTION !! even with a BB gun they should have eye protection. Ear plugs are cheap, you can get them for less than .10/each. eye protection would be laees than $2.00.

    The first thing you teach kids is to be safe and smart, that starts with the eye and ear proctection.

    It will hurt you, More than it will hurt me..

    Life Member..NRA,
    American Legion, MECU, MWCA, SMSC, NASDS, IDPA
    Thanks for all the help!

    IN GOD WE TRUST! *And don't use Pay Pal!
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    Eye and ear protection IS NOT optional. No protection, no shooting. This comes from a half deaf expert. Not to mention that is there was an injury the camp's insurance company would probably shut down the shooting program.
  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    Check out Remington's .22 Subsonic ammo, it's pretty quite, and while your at it get those kids EAR & EYE protection.

    Gun control is hitting what your aiming at.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,049 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My ears ring all night. If they won't listen now,..tell them they will be listening MUCH HARDER in the future just to hear their friends. My Argentina Dove Hunt in 98' after 4000+ rnds of 12ga in 3 days was my deciding factor, and my downfall as far as my hearing. I didn't wear ear plugs,..and I wish I had been a bit older and wiser back then. My hearing is damaged, and will never be the same. Hind sight is 20/20[8]

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bperdue21
    if the kids won't wear the protection, they shouldn't be shooting. get ear plugs or sell the 22's and get bb guns. it isn't really the proper way to teach children to shoot without ear protection.

    I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


    I am, buy golly, staying at a Holiday Inn Express right now. To shoot safetly means that no harm is done to NON-TARGETS. Ears are non-targets. If the kids can't be responsible enough to wear hearing protection then they are not mature enough to handle firearms. Use Federal target .22 amm available cheap from www.ammoman.com . Make the kids learn that hearing protection is PART of the art of shooting. It is not an option. The chambe ring caused by thge shorter CB case needs cleand out before resuming using the proper .22LR ammo.
  • ZinderblocZinderbloc Member Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the input, guys, but let me clarify

    The .22 rifles are not loud. It's just that these kids perceive them to be loud. I guess it comes from watching TV "guns" being fired.

    We don't require ear protection at the range. C'mon, how many of us really use hearing protection when firing a .22 rifle out in the back yard?

    We have ear muffs available, but the kids are little and the muffs interfere with shooting prone. Most kids try them for one relay and hang them back up.

    CCI CB Longs are great except for the wax problem. We tried some W-W shorts (plated bullets, very clean) but the CBs were better.

    I worry about using any round that contains only a primer. The last thing I want is a stuck bullet in the bore.

    Again, thanks for all the posts.
  • bperdue21bperdue21 Member Posts: 1,457 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    it is really not the point that the 22 is loud. it is a point of teaching the kids the RIGHT way to do things. and yes even a 22 going off can damage hearing over time. so if you can't be responsible enough to make sure the kids wear the proper protection, they should find someone else to run the range.

    I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
  • ZinderblocZinderbloc Member Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bperdue21, I have read some of your other posts and you seem like a sensible guy.

    Please post the source of your claim that exposure to .22 LR target ammo fired from a 20" rifle barrel "can damage hearing over a period of time."
  • gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    1- All guns are always loaded: never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy
    2- Eye & ear protection must always be worn when firing guns (even a 22lr makes better than 85db)
    3- Keep your finger off the trigger until the target is in your sights.
    4- Children are especially prone to distraction; NEVER hand a child a loaded gun with the safety off.
    5- Be sure of your backstop; you cannot call back a bullet.

    These 5 rules have been my training since I was 5 years old. I still hear as well as I did 45 years ago because I followed the rules.
    If you disbelieve that firing a 22lr will damage your hearing; great! When you get fitted for that hearing aid next Fall; remember, we toldjaso!

    As an aside; if MY kid were to attend your little summer camp and not be fitted with earmuffs/earplugs AND safety glasses; I'd never have to work another day of my life! My lawyer, either!

    "Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit" --OVID
  • gunzforevergunzforever Member Posts: 619 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    babies they should get toughter, are they from the city, but i do agree with the saftey the most improtant thing with guns and God help you if you are no safe
  • eastwood44mageastwood44mag Member Posts: 2,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My hearing is shot from shooting without plugs. Ain't coming back either, and 90+% of those shots were .22LR.

    O Lord,
    grant me the Serenity
    to accept the things
    I cannot change
    the courage to change the things I can,
    and the supreme firepower to make the difference.
  • bperdue21bperdue21 Member Posts: 1,457 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i thought it was common knowledge that exposure to loud or continuous noise over time caused hearing loss. most factories require earplugs to be around their machinery and it is generally just a light hum.

    I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
  • eastwood44mageastwood44mag Member Posts: 2,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bperdue21
    i thought it was common knowledge that exposure to loud or continuous noise over time caused hearing loss. most factories require earplugs to be around their machinery and it is generally just a light hum.

    I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


    Common knowledge, perhaps. The problem is common sense is anything but common.

    O Lord,
    grant me the Serenity
    to accept the things
    I cannot change
    the courage to change the things I can,
    and the supreme firepower to make the difference.
  • Grunt2Grunt2 Member Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Aguila for me.....But keep in mind the LACK of velocity when making a choice of backstop...The 20gr bullet will bounce around!

    "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
    - Ronald Reagan
    Retired LEO
    Combat Vet VN
    D.A.V Life Member
  • ZinderblocZinderbloc Member Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks again everyone for the input. I will order up a thousand rounds of the Aguila this winter and try them out. They might be just what I'm looking for.

    Grunt2, we have a sand berm behind our targets, but I will keep your comment about ricochets in mind. Thanks.
  • buddybbuddyb Member Posts: 4,605 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have noticed how 22CBs crud up my old single shot to the point the bolt will not close.And I agree with the eye and ear protection.I am sure I'm not the only old guy here with damaged hearing.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,725
    edited November -1
    Zinderbloc- yes, regular 22 LR ammo IS loud enuff to damage your hearing. The noise of ANY firearm, with the exception of the CB/BB caps, and suppressed weapons, goes over the safe exposure limit. The difficulty with firearms is that the sound is IMPACT noise- which is measured differently from continous noise- like a loud machine. Even OSHA has established limits on impact noises. Please understand that while it is happening, you don't feel a thing. Do it long enuff, you also won't HEAR a thing. Granted, a 44 mag or 308 will do it a lot quicker- but a 22 will do the job. And speaking of personal health- how many of you WASH YOUR HANDS after shooting- before you eat, drink, smoke or dip? We are finding elevated blood lead levels in some folks- usually from the primers- which are lead azide or lead styphanate. Momma knew what she was talking about when she told you to go wash. Shoot safe and often.

    "I have good news and bad. Make it through, you don't have to prove anything to anyone the rest of your life. Bad news- you have to prove it to me first." CSM, US Army Ranger School.
  • ZinderblocZinderbloc Member Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    11b6r- you make a very valid point about the lead, especially since the .22 bullets we use are not plated. We have always kept a bottle of the waterless "hand sanitizer" at the range, but now I wonder if running a pipe out there might be a good idea. Thanks.
  • ZinderblocZinderbloc Member Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Update August 2006

    I took Tailgunner's advice and ordered 25,000 rounds of CCI Short Target ammunition. We've been shooting it all summer and it is the best ammo for the job. Quiet, totally reliable (not one single dud in 25K rounds)and every bit as accurate at 50 feet as the LR ammo.

    The kids at camp love the new "short" ammo. We will never go back to the louder LR ammo. The CCI shorts chamber easily (no wax like the CB caps) and extract easily from our aged target rifles.

    The CCI Target short ammo is perfect if you're looking for an accurate, quiet .22 round. It's great stuff, guys. Tailgunner1954, thanks for the info. FYI we also tried some Aguila "sniper" ammo with a 60 gr. bullet. It worked well but the Eley primer has a funny smell that the kids didn't like.
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,815
    edited November -1
    Cool, glad you found something that works well for you.
  • bama55bama55 Member Posts: 6,389 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:We don't require ear protection at the range. C'mon, how many of us really use hearing protection when firing a .22 rifle out in the back yard?

    Please, at least let them put cotton in their ears! I started young with .22 shorts. Didn't think/know about ear protection back then. Now, my ears ring 24/7. I now use ear protection every time I shoot hopefully so my ears wont get worse.

    I realize this is an old topic with an update. Glad the new ammo works better for the kids.
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