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Neck sizing brass
victorlvlb
Member Posts: 5,004
After you have fire formed your brass, whats the advantage of neck sizing instead of full length resizing?
Comments
Treat EACH rifle as a new girlfriend - find out what THEY like, regarless of hair color (caliber), height (length of barrel), or type of apertures (you can figure out what body parts this relates to).
Read this...my experience with my 223...just 7 days ago.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=208398
The brass will last a lot longer since you are only "re-working" a small area of the case.
Less case trimming required for same reason.
No messy lube is required.
Considerably less effort/exertion.
When neck-sizing you are pretty much allocating the round to a specific gun anyhow so I shallow-seat the first reload and chamber it in the intended gun. Remove the round and use it to set your bullet seating depth. (Go just a couple of thousandths deeper--you don't want zero headspace.) These will be accurate rounds for your gun since you have now custom tailored two variables specific to your gun.
Personally, I'm not a good enough shot to appreciate the difference and I appreciate the "return to factory specs" you get when full-length sizing. This makes ammo interchangeable with other guns etc.
Anyhow, I'm a novice reloader when it comes to rifles but this is my understanding/experience for what its worth. BTW, for what caliber are you reloading?
I have found standard dies to be spotty on how well they will hold concentricity in the NK dies, with the exception of a few: Redding competition, Wilson, Forster, Lee Collet.
When using a bushing style neck die, you can control your neck tension .001" at a time to tweek the load.
The Lee Collet die makes a very straight round for the price, I have several sets that are good for under .002" with unturned factory brass.
Do a search on Partial Full Length Sizing also,..it has many merits IMHO. I have been using this method for a few years now, and it definitely appears to make some accurate rounds. I really don't like the overworking that FL sizing accomplishes.
"...it states that shooting neck sized ammo to many times in a short period of time is a no no.Why is that?"
Neck sizing only does not size the entire neck section of a case right down to the top of the shoulder. There is always a little bit of the neck left at the fired size. The other problem is case growth with neck sizing only. The shoulder has a tendency to move forward slightly every time that case is fired. Both of these contribute to harder than normal chambering or lack of chambering in some situations and work hardening of the neck which can lead to case separation at the neck and shoulder junction. Usually all you have to do is anneal those cases every 3 shots or so.
The partial sizing works in most situations but you can also use a shoulder bumping die or a Redding body sizing only die.
You're at the point where the subtle nuances of careful, accurate reloading can start to cost you a lot of money. It's funny how that happens... [^] but happen it does. The more you learn by doing and by asking, the more it generally costs. There is something to be said for the phrase 'ignorance is bliss'. Ignorance is also cheaper!
You're on the right track.
Best.
Are you breaking in a new barrel ? The arguments rage about this..but consider this. Everytime you fire a bullet thru that bore..guilding metal is deposited here or there in the bore...the rougher the bore, the more metal deposited. You continue firing without cleaning and the deposits accumulates and grows towards the muzzle.
By cleaning carefully, you allow that bullet to impinge directly upon the metal of the barrel...polishing and smoothing it. The smoother the bore..the less guilding metal deposited..the less cleaning.
A new barrel, I shoot one shot, than clean..up to ten rounds. Then 3 rounds..to about 50, or I become exhausted, or the bore responds.
A full resized case is MUCH less likely to cause any problems when afield hunting....and if you have several thousand dollars riding on that one shot..consider reliability.
absolute benchrest accuracy takes a back seat to reliability in a hunting situation.
By the way..if you have one of those Outers aluminum jointed cleaning rods...do your barrel a real favor and just sorta forget cleaning till several hundred rounds are fired. They will destroy a bore in so short a time you will not believe it.
I was not talking about speed loading.I asking if I would have any problems firing fifty rounds of neck sized brass in a few hours at the range.If I fire fifty rounds at the range and none of the neck sized brass gives me a problem, I would say it would be reliable in any hunting situation.My rifle is over thirty years old, it been cleaned by some cheap brushes and cleaning rods.At one hundred yards my rifle will place three out three rounds one inch high of the center of the bull, that can be covered with a nickel.In other words my 3006 is sighted in for close to a two hundred yard shoot.
"Would I have a problem firing all of them at the range in a period of two hours?"
It depends on the temperature of the day and your rate of fire. Straight math shows that you would be firing one shot every 2.4 minutes which is not a bad rate of fire. The idea is to let the barrel remain as cool as possible over the duration of the firing of all 50 shots. Faster rates of fire will heat the barrel up and can damage the interior of the barrel with throat erosion and advanced fouling which is not good.
Some folks recommend firing 3 shots then waiting a minimum of 5 minutes for cooling before firing any more shots. I take another rifle or better several, to test at the same time so that I'm not sitting on my hands waiting for the cooling time to elapse. Shoot several tests or break in a couple of rifles, sight in that other new scope, shoot some pistol but let the rifle cool between shots.
The next toy to talk about is a bore guide. This is a simple tool that you can either make or purchase which is used to protect your chamber and act as a guide for your cleaning rod. It is supposed to reduce the amount of damage that can result from improper or rushed cleaning techniques. If I needed to fire 50 shots at the range on one rifle, I would definitely clean at least 2 or 3 times carefully over the course of 50 shots. If you don't want to spend the money on buying one you can make one from an arrow shaft or something similar along with some rubber washers and gaskets.
http://www.precisionreloading.com/bore_guides.htm
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?tabid=6&categoryid=8871&categorystring=10612***
http://www.stoneypoint.com/boreallinone_index.html
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/catsearch.aspx?c=134&p=4795
http://www.boretech.com/bore_guide.htm
Best.
thats some fine shooting.I'm sorry if I come across like and old grouch.I only have half the roof on the den repaired, and I need some range time.nononsense&JustC, thanks for the info.
Remember this, every time you ask a question, the question/answer post usually splits a couple times.
You would be surprised how many posts answer multiple questions, that never get asked.
I do not have that much experience in reloading....but I am making a lot of mistakes FAST! LOL!
I'll get me a bore guide with a solvent port next time I go to the gun shop.But right now I rather go shooting not shopping.We have had so much rain in the last month or so ,that I'm either mowing the weeds and lawn , or fixing the roof over the den.Saturday I'll buy all the paint and brushes for painting the fascia of the den, I might even start painting some of the fascia.Sunday after church I'll be headed to the range, if it don't rain.
also, whats the idea of having a competition neck sizer? like the redding ones with the dial on top. i can understand the bullet seater being like that, so whats the big advantage neck sizer having one?
The solvent port is a must when cleaning rifles on a cradle with the muzzle at a downward angle. You can drip the solvent right on the patch and not lose a drop on the floor or bench. It makes a cleaner, cleaning job[;)] [^]
the micrometer sizer makes it possible to size the neck by .001"s at a time. This will allow you to only size enough neck to get correct neck tension while avoiding or retarding the appearance of the "doughnut" at the neck base. Also, by changing the amount of neck sized by .001"s allows you to perfect the neck tension for that bullet/case/powder/primer/chamber/barrel combination.
I'll call the gun shop and order either a Dewy or bore tech rod & scinclair bore guide with a solvent port.They do come with instructions right?I might even talk my wife into picking it up for me.You don't use the solvent at the range do you? I'm thinking I'd only have to use the brush and a patch at the range, right?
and i never drip any solvent! the solvent i use has a little spout thing on the top of the bottle, so i just pour it on to the cloth, and the cloth absorbs it and doesnt drip, plus u can put it on both sides of the patch so it isnt only on one side of the cloth, dont know what difference it makes.
The main reason for the guide is to save premature wear on the throat from the misaligned jag.
its me,...the projectile may appear to be into the case internals, but the bearing surface probably won't be down that far. The bearing surface is the only part that touches the neck. And, if you are loading long to try and get a better proximity to the lands, then the bearing surface is moved more toward the case mouth and may only contact for 1/2 or 1/3 the neck, therefore that is all the neck that needs to be worked each time. Continual full neck sizing will overwork the neck more quickly and can possibly lead to that doughnut forming at the neck/shoulder junction which will affect ignition and plasma flow leading to a loss of accuracy.
"but..if your projectile is going all the way down the neck and even into the case wouldnt u want the whole neck sized?"
Leaving a bit of the neck unsized also allows for the neck to help in getting the cartridge centered as it enters the chamber since it remains at the fired (chamber) size minus a little spring back.
You can see in the photograph below that it doesn't take much neck to hold and control a bullet, even one large in diameter and long. So if a small portion of a 'standard' neck is left unsized, it won't make much difference anyway. This is a real cartridge and is being fielded in actual benchrest competitions. They are calling it the Wolf Pup.
"and i never drip any solvent!"
Well I do and sometimes it's quite a bit when I rush, so I use a bore guide and solvent port. This is both a guide for the rod into the bore which saves the throat but with the solvent port, I don't have to worry about my wood stocked rifles getting soggy or ruining a very expensive paint job on a competition rifle. It also helps to prevent the build-up of gunk from dust and dirt getting trapped by the spilt solvent.
Best.
and thanks for all the info, ill half size the neck from now on!
The Outers foam at WalMart is not the same stuff, and is a pain to get in the bore.
Once you get the hang of how to apply the foam there is little waste.
To keep it out of the action and stock while soaking in the cleaning cradle I make sure the muzzle is slightly lower than the reciever and the turn the rifle upside down in the cradle so any run out will drip out and not get into the action, be sure to put a rag or paper towel between the scope body and the rifle.
The cleaners are made in Paola, Kansas and sold by Paul co. Inc.
There web site is www.sharpshooter.com
Good Luck
We have a problem, if i go to the site you gave me its all about kids toys.Are you pulling my leg ?[:)][:)][:)]
Sorry, I had too many fingers in the way while typing the site address.
The correct address is www.sharpshootr.com
There is no E in shooter.
My appologies
Thanks.