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357 load development - like 45LC was ?

gotstolefromgotstolefrom Member Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 2007 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
GREETINGS - my first post in here.
(I've found my 'sweet loads' and have stuck with them).

I went out of town for some of the holidays, saw a cousin I have not seen in 30 years. It turns out he likes to shoot and reloads. I was at his loading bench and saw a box marked "357 MAGNUM OVERLOADS". When Ken comes in I asked "WTH is this man ? He sez "It is a load I'm working on, it seems to be working out. It groups well, and has plenty of whump to it."

I flipped the label up and read ' Lot 2A, 150gr JHP, IMR 4227 19 gr.'
I told him that I had good results with IMR 4227 at 22gr in my 44mag with a 240gr JHP, and asked where he found that load. He said he started from some info from his loading book, and creeped up from there. I casually asked if he counted his fingers after a powder increase. He laughed and said he was watching cases and primers for hints of excessive pressure. Even making very small increments, is this acceptable practic.

I think he sensed my uneasyness and said "It's no different from how people 'heated up' the 45 Long Colt loads years back". I remember hearing about that, but are we talking about the same thing ? The 45 LC may have been in 'uncharted waters', but I didn't think the 357 has much 'un charted water around'.

Just HOW DID the 45LC 'HOT CROWD' develop and monitor their loads ?

Comments ?
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Comments

  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hllo I agree not too much uncharted waters. It seems like there is a large group of gun lovers/haters that are looking to get that last 10 FPS out of any cartridge just like the Car nuts that modify one part with out thinking about the total package. Hot loads might work in one gun and blowup another no matter what it is harder on a gun and a big flinch producer wondering if it is going to show pressure signs in a BIG way. Your friend is one reason I never shoot anyones reloads.or let them shoot their loads in my guns."PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN"
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  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Just HOW DID the 45LC 'HOT CROWD' develop and monitor their loads ?"

    By blowing up the occasional gun. One of the gunzines had a well lighted Ichirio Nagata cover of two of Elmer Keith's guns. Both had visible weld seams where the topstraps had been blown off and replaced. That is no longer socially acceptable, and not really necessary, there are enough pressure guns out there to sneak up on top loads.
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  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is Ichirio the best photog in the universe or what! [:)][:)][:)]His stuff makes other peoples look like they shot it with a disposable.
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  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We have people that for years crimped basting caps onto safety fuse by biting it with their teeth. Their argument was that nothing bad had happened yet. Sound familiar?
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  • gotstolefromgotstolefrom Member Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the replies. It spurred me to surf down some 45LC load development, Keith, and Nagata. Nothing outstanding, but some documentation on some lucky failures.

    Perry Shooter - Thank you ... he's my 'long lost' COUSIN, not necessarily my FRIEND.

    On Perry's reload use guidelines...I'll add that I do not let anyone use my loads. In short, if ANYTHING 'bad' happens, the load will be blamed no matter what.

    Thanks Again
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  • dtknowlesdtknowles Member Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think is was someones tag line here, "reloads are like underwear, you don't someone else's"

    Seriously, using anything but a starting load in a gun for the first time is not a good idea.

    About hot .357 mag. loads, Factory .357 mag. was originally hotter than it is now. .357 maximum factory pressures are much higher than current .357 mag. You have to know your gun and why you are going into the danger zone. What are the failure modes, pressure signs are very hard to use accurately.

    Be careful hot rod-ing, .45LC, .45-70, .30-06, .30-30, .38spcl, .22 Hornet, 7 x 57, factory loads are all restricted to lower pressures in consideration of older guns but in some newer guns in proper working order are not uncomfortable with higher than factory pressures. You have to know your gun and even then the risks you take are your own and do not let your "hot" ammo get into someone elses gun. If you really need the performance, for every one of those calibers there is a higher performing cartridge that will beat them without exceeding factory pressures.

    I am still working on why I should be working toward max. load, how much better is another 100 fps, does it matter.

    Don't get me wrong, I have fired may max. and a few over max. loads, I am just not sure I am better off for doing it.

    I am an experimenter at heart, sometimes I just want to test an idea. One of my best ideas was to load a lot of "mid range" lower power loads, I don't push the envelope very much these day but .....


    Think twice and then think again and don't pass your trouble around.

    Tim
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