Can the 45-70 be safely loaded to the pressures...

n/a

of the .450 Marlin??? It's my understanding that the .450 Marlin is the identical case as the 45-70, only belted. If this is the case, I would think you could load the 45-70 just as hot as the .450 Marlin...unless the .450 Marlin rifle was built to handle higher pressures. I'm going to be in the market for a 45-70/.450 in the future...Thanks.[:)]

Pearyw

I am not sure of the pressure levels. I know I used to load my 1895 Marlin to levels about twice the energy levels of the standard round. It has an unplesant recoil at those levels. It was kicking me worse than my 8# Mauser 375 H&H. It was in the 1800 FPS level with a 400 gr Speer bullet.

Sig220_Ruger77

I just bought my 45-70 not too long ago, so I don't have a lot of experience reloading for it yet. I have seen and heard of many people loading their 45-70's as hot as a .450 marlin. If you check out some of the manufacturer's like Buffalo Bore, the 45-70 ammo beats the .450 Marlin by 25 FPS(when comparing the same bullet and weight) if that tells you anything. Basically, I don't see why you can't take the same case(with a belt), in the same gun, and load it to the same pressure. Obviously, I would still slowly work my way up to the higher pressures just in case. Just my 2 cents.

Jon

remington nut

i've loaded my 45-70 rounds to shoot out of my BFR revolver with the loading data for siamese mauser actions and ruger #1's. very stout out of my 10" barrelled revolver and chrony'd them at just over 1800 fps. with a 300 gr sierra bullet. i've shot ALOT of these loads with no signs of over pressure in the cases or primers. I've also read that you can push the 45-70 beyond the levels of the 450 marlin, only limitations being the 45-70 brass is thinner and the model of gun you are shooting them out of. lever guns don't like the hotter loads so i've been told.

1KYDSTR

I've been handloading my Marlin GG since I got it new 7 years ago, and have worked progressively up the bravery ladder (carefully checking for incipient pressure signs, as ussual)to 1860 fps using a gas checked 455 grain hard cast lead bullet (Bonus Bullet brand) over 39 grains of 4198 and a mag primer. The cases show pressure signs at these levels so I don't reccomend the load for frequent use in an unmodified Guide Gun, but once in a while they are fun to shoot at steel plates. I use a "3/16ths thick 5 inch square plate set on the backstop from around 20 yards (speed gets scrubbed off really quick with this bullet in general) and it will nearly spall through the plate and turns them into Lays potato chips! Too cool for words, and again, done but rarely to serve as point of fact example to the non believers.

I normally stick to around 35 grains and speed drops at the mnuzzle to around low 1600's, but still makes deer waaaay dead. Actually braks bone like it was made if balsa wood, and does a really nice number on black bear too. As I understand it, there is nothing the 450 Marlin will do that the 45/70 can't be made to do. You can't load up the 450 Marlin much higher than it already is because of the aforementioned pressure limitations of the 1895 action so aside from the proprietary/expensive cartridge, I don't see a use for the 450 at all. There is supposedly a slightly thicker web section to the 450, but I have never sawed one in half to prove/disprove this assertion; and anyway, who cares. When you are hunting Podunk Idaho and get a little range happy sighting your gun in on arrival, chances are the Ma and Pa gunshop locally will have a few different loads for the 45/70...chances are slim you'll even FIND the 450 Marlin ammo on the shelf...unless it is one of the few boxes they got when the round came out originally and was touted as the next "poor man's 458 Win Mag"! Pish Posh to the 450 Marlin, says I!!! Give me a good old 45-70 any day...135 years old and still making converts every day!

I.Shute

I'd like to repeat what Pearyw said. That load is about the maximum that I and the Marlin both like.

I keep my ammo for the Marlin and Siamese rifles separated, but somehow a Siam got loaded in the Marlin. They're loaded to nearly 2200 fps with 405 gr. bullets and I thought that flimsy little lever rifle was exploding, along with my shoulder.

Never saw any signs of excess pressure with the Siam loads, but haven't gone any higher to look for any.
I have shot about 60 rounds of 300 gr. PMC in my 45-90 Siamese and it's about like a 30-30 in an 8 lb. rifle, not too impressive. Should be able to get another 100 fps more than the 45-70 out of it when I load it with 405 grainers.

As 1KYDSTR says, stay with the 45-70. I don't see the 450 ever overtaking the 45-70 in popularity or availability.

Ross

Eric, The question can't be answered until you choose the gun. A trapdoor Springfield is not as strong as a Ruger #3.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross