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Best for 25 WSSM

I am looking for information for the best powder and primer, that anyone who has experienced for the 25 WSSM. I have used CCI BR2, and BL-C2, with un satisfactory results. Mostly pop-bangs. Could a bad lot of primers do this?

Comments

  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,645 ******
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    That would depend on which bullet you selected and for what use. The best powder and primer is the combination that shoots safely with the most accuracy in your rifle.

    Mostly pop-bangs.

    Do you mean that you can hear the primer ignite before the powder ignites?

    That could indicate a couple of diffent things. Usually, ball powder is harder to ignite than stick or flake powders. The recommendation is to use a Magnum primer instead of a standard energy primer. Another problem could be a slightly weakened firing pin spring or a spring that is being delayed slightly by a rough interior in the bolt body. If you've used this rifle with other loads previously without this problem, I'd look at the primers first.

    Yes, a bad lot of primers could do this but it is unusual these days. Poor QC or poor materials could contribute to inconsistant primers.

    Personally, I'd switch powders. The BLC2 is a pinch too fast for this application unless you're loading the very lightest of the bullet weights. The heavier bullet weights could use a slower powder (non-ball) with standard energy primers. Any of the 4350's (IMR, H, AA) as well as Ramshot Hunter. These will work well with bullet weighing 100 gr. and heavier. I'm using Ramshot Hunter with 115 gr. Berger VLD's and Nosler Partitions.

    Best.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
    edited November -1
    Thanks for that information. This is my first go around with these short fat stubby rounds. I was using the Barnes 100 XLC, and also have some 110 accubonds to try now.

    The reason I suspect the primers is that I got irratic accuracy out of my prize 243, and 260, along with similar pop bangs with the 7MM Ultra Mag SAKO I have. I have used the CCI BR2's in my 300 Win with awesome results also. The BL-C(2) does have some grimaces that live with it, so I will try my fav. IMR 4350.
  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,645 ******
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    I like the IMR-4350 also, it is literally the good old standby.

    These stubbby cartridges can have some quirks that don't appear in other cartridges that have the same case capacity. I've worked with the .224, .243 and the .25 as standard cartridges and the 6.5 as a wildcat on the .25 WSSM case. They each have their own peculiarities.

    You might want to e-mail sandwarrior if he doesn't read this first because he has one of the.25 WSSM's as well.

    Best.
  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,645 ******
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    Here's a photo of the cartridge with its unofficial name:

    6.5 Heaton

    6.5Heaton.jpg

    Being a wildcat, credit usually goes to the first person who forms cartridge cases and cuts a chamber, hence the name, so as far as this case is concerned, Boyd Heaton beat the rest of us to it.

    The first chambers were cut with the 25 WSSM removable pilot reamers. That way we could use a pilot bushing for the .256 bore diameter and let the rest of the reamer cut the chamber. The reason this works is due to the really thick necks of the WSSM cases. We just turned the necks down to provide the clearance for the expanding case neck.

    The WSSM case provides the appropriate capacity for the heavy 6.5 target bullets according to the long range shooters. These shooters felt that the 6.5 x 284 case had just a tad too much space to get 100% fill and achieve the reduced velocity range of 2875 to 2950 FPS that is deemed perfect for the best accuracy with the .264" bullets. The case capacity is similar to most of the intermediate cases, about 56 grains, making it very similar to the 6.5 x 57, 6.5 x 55 and the 260 Rem. The WSSM case has the 35 degree shoulder that seems to please everyone with the potential for efficient powder burning.

    I use an additional throater to cut a slightly longer throat that will accommodate the 140 gr. VLD bullets. This means that my OAL runs about 2.560" to 2.600" when I load the 140 Berger VLD's seated out. Remember that this case capacity is right at the edge of performing up to the velocity range stated above, so every grain of capacity is needed. The powder burn rate is once again in the 4350 range and all three of them work just fine with a full case or even slightly compressed. I like the IMR-4350 and Ramshot Hunter but Boyd seems to favor the H-4350. The rifle and bullet combination will help you decide which work best in your system. Some folks seem to like the V V N-165 but that load is very compressed... Re-19 will work as well but again it will take a slightly compressed load and the efficiency suffers a little bit.

    The fun part of this cartridge is that you can use standard length barrels along the line of 26" instead of the longer ones we use at 30" to 32" for 1,000 yard shooting. You can also use the lighter bullets, the 130 gr. Norma Diamond bullets are great for more velocity and I've used the 125 gr. Nosler Partition to work up hunting loads. You don't have to use a boattail, flat base bullets work very well with this case at these velocities.

    Boyd has written quite a bit on this cartridge and a search will produce most everything he's written including loads and bullet selection for long range shooting.

    Best.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,599
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    I have pretty much been using Win LR primers for reloading this cartridge. Never had a bad one yet. I have only loaded Win 760 in this as well for ball powder. Again no firing issues. If you are hearing a pop before the bang then I would definitely change primers. I would also check my technique in that you're not getting oil or something in the mouth of the primer cup. I would also go back and make sure you are cleaning pockets too. Resizing with a standard die and primer stem should ensure you have a good {Edit:} clear flashhole, so that you aren't getting any blockage there. BLC-2 wouldn't be my first choice in powder for this rifle but some I have chosen didn't work all that great either.

    My rifle has the short barrel so I have limited my usage of 4350 to heavier bullets. I've had a lot of success with Vihtavouri 140 and 150 too. The burn rate for 150 runs about the same as 4350 but you need to start with less than 4350 minimum (4 gr.) as it produces more pressure. It burns cooler until the typical overpressure spike causes tons of heat and pressure combined. This I have found is magnified, I think, in this shorter fatter case where the steeper shoulder combined with the wider case produces a stronger pressure dam in dynamic. In my opinion it is better work up even slower in these cases when you near the top of the pressure you are going to work with.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
    edited November -1
    Thanks nononsense, and Sandwarrior,

    That is all welcome information. If there happens to be anything more you have to offer, my mind is open. That batch of primers was raising havoc in my coveted 260 Rem A-bolt, and my 243 also. I have used the CCI LR BR2 for years in everything...magnums included. I have a new project on the boards for a 6.5 Heaton of sort. I love that idea!
  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,645 ******
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    If that batch of primers has diminished or inconsistent performance in other rifles/chambers, I'd call CCI and see if they want to test them or replace them for you. They will have to send you to someone that can ship the primers for you or they might take your word for the problem and simply replace them for you. Good customer service would dictate replacing them with a coupon or something similar. Call and ask, it couldn't hurt.

    Best.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
    edited November -1
    I know, coming from a manufacturing environment, that if I were a manufacturing company, and had possibly bad product, get out, I would want to test it, and find out why so it did not happen again. Being that i hold an FFL, I can ship them back to CCI if they so request. I have great luck with those specific type/size/brand in anything from 22 hornet to 300 Win Mag(lighting up 81 grains of 760 behind a 130 Barnes XLC). On the other hand, I have friends who swear by the Federal 215 M for everything. Just for the record, I use the RCBS APS table mount for all of my priming.
  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,645 ******
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    I'm not absolutely sure but I think you have to be a certified HazMat shipper in order to send things like primers and powder anywhere in the U.S. Being an FFL has nothing to do with it. Just to be sure, you might want to check with one of our members who is a certified HazMat shipper:

    Select 'Members' in the upper right corner and type in 'EOD Guy' to get his e-mail contact.

    I've been using Federal Match primers for a long time but recent changes in the industry leading to the lack of supply has forced me to look elsewhere for quality primers. A large number of benchrest shooters use the CCI BR primers with great success and I've tested all of the brands of primers on and off since I started reloading. So now I'm stocking CCI and the standard Federal primers along with testing quantities of Winchester and Remington. I'll get back into some testing when the heat of the summer subsides and fall finally returns.

    Best.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,599
    edited November -1
    tsr1965,

    I concur with what nononsense says on the shipping. You do have to be a hazmat shipper for primers and powder. For bullets(cartridges) you have only to ship under a certain quantity on the ground if it is for retail or wholesale purpose. The figure I last remember seeing was 75 lbs. For sporting purposes (your own use) you can carry a limited amount aboard an (company policy)aircraft to and from your shooting destination. I go through our "Dangerous Goods" training for the airline I work for, which doesn't qualify me for anything, just makes me 'aware'.

    Also, what rifle and barrel length do you have? This may mean a different choice in how you load your rounds. I wished I would have gotten the stealth for varmint shooting as that is what I would like to do more with the round. But, my Super Shadow is so light it is hard to beat for a long walk.

    Along the lines of going with the 6.5 Heaton I have to say I like it too. Funny how most of the rhetoric I read following the introduction of the 25 WSSM was focused on "They should have(heard 1000 times)... A. gone with the 25WSM or, B. gone with the 6.5 WSSM (Heaton).
    I only own a 6.5x55 of the 6.5 calibers. But of the many 6.5's that I have shot on our range I am duly impressed. I obviously haven't taken many of them long distance shooting where I could really evaluate what they will do as far out as I can see, but the 6.5x55 has impressed me much already in that role.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
    edited November -1
    My rifle is the stainless ultimate shadow, with a 22 inch barrel. It was junk when i got it, as the bedding epoxy in the stock stuck to the action. I have put pillars in, using brownells steel bed, and aluminum pillars, done a trigger job, lapped the barrel, and action. It loves the 85 grain factory load, and the 110's. I was trying to get some starting loads using the Barnes XLC when I had the problem. Then the same thing with a 7MM ultra mag, and irratic accuracy from my 260(another 6.5), and my 243.
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