M77 giving me fits

jaytee

Shot my .260 Ruger M77 today and man what a chitty session of shooting. I shot 3 different loads and none were very good. The first one was a load of 34grs. varget, fed match primers and 129gr.hornady interloks. It measured 3.75 inch and was roughly two and a half inches low and two inches right. The next load was 35 gr. varget, fed match primers and 129 gr. Hornady interloks. This group measured 1.75 inches and it too was an inch and a half low and two inches right. The last 3 shot group was with factory Remington Premier with 120 gr.Nosler Ballistic Tips. This group was just shy of 3 inches and it was about 2 inches high and an inch and a half right. Any ideas as to why the wide range of impact points? How finicky are M77's when it comes to action screw tightness? I've never had the gun apart but maybe its time to check for bedding issues. Any ideas as to what I can do to get this gun to shoot tighter groups? I've also read on a few occasions that in the grand scheme of things, powder charges have a lesser affect on accuracy then most people think. With that being said, what factors have more effect on accuracy; primers, overall length, case length, case weight uniformity? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

brier-49

When I bought mine it shot all over the place,It's 30-06.I took it apart to check like you said and found the stock milling operation had left shreded wood still conected to the inlet areas.I cleaned all of it out and the gun shoots fine.I guess Ruger didn't take time for any hand inleting.

RCrosby

I'm a big fan of the 77's; have a .270 tang safety, an Ultra Light .243 Mk. II and a new Hawkeye .257. Step 1, definately take it out of the stock and look around.
Good luck.
p.s. When I tried to "un-stock" my .257 I was afraid I wouldn't be able to loosen the screws without buggering them. Like they'd been put in with an impact driver. Damnded thing.

MrOrange

Have you considered experimenting with the barrel harmonics? That's another way of asking if you'd be willing to bob the barrel.

When reading about the Browning BOSS, I learned that the Browning factory would often take a rifle that had been returned as imprecise and cut an inch of the barrel, taking the chance that it was an instance where it would help. They did this because it often cured the rifle's problems with no other work, and the customer usually never knew what happened. That experience is what led to the invention of the BOSS.

My synthetic stocked .308 MkII shot to a barely acceptable level (like 2-3" groups depending on ammo) until I had the barrel cut down to 19" and a front sight with long ramp installed. I also floated the barrel just for GP, easy to do with the synthetic stock. The areas where the action bedded looked like they were being clamped evenly so I left them alone. Groups got tiny to the point that I stopped telling people how it shot because they never believed me. I just lucked out, but you might want to try lopping off an inch to see what happens.

RCrosby

Before I'd lop a whole inch off, I think I'd consider taking off 1/16".
Nothing to do with harmonics, just enough to clean up a possibly off kilter crown.
Don't harmonics change with bullet weight and style, powder charge, etc?
Of course installing a BOSS would always be an option, but I'd tackle the least expensive and easiest options first; i.e. remove the stock, check for obvious bedding problems, snug down the actions screws in the proper order, play around with a little "up pressure" at the forend tip, make sure scope mounts are secure and scope is good.
Good luck.

375H&H

Trade it in for model 70 [8D]

Tailgunner1954

Since you reload, run the min-max range for your Varget/Hornady combo, in 1/2gr increments (3 shot groups). Don't worry about where the impact point is (IOW it don't mean squat, at this time), just look at the difference in the group sizes.
Now, load up 5 rounds at the powder charge(s) that gave the smallest group(s) and re-shoot them (eliminating fluke groups).
Than, using the powder charge that grouped the best from above, vary your seating depth in .010 incriments (both longer and shorter) and shoot another 3 shot test. Finaly re-shoot the best of those groups in a 5 shot test.

If your still not satisified, than it's time to start over with another bullet type (weight or brand or style) or another powder type.

Tailgunner1954

BTW, the biggest factor is the bullet (brand and weight together), followed by the powder type, than the powder charge, than case volume uniformity, than distance to the lands, than primer.

The above is all assuming that their isn't a loose nut behind the trigger [:D]. How does it group with a known quality shooter behind the butt?

Highball

Many factors at play, here.
1; Check scope ring and mount screws for proper tightness.and perhaps switching scopes may cure the problem.
2; Examine muzzle...be very sure there are no dings at crown.
3; Check bedding screws for proper torque.
4; Clean barrel THOROUGHLY
5: check..(slide a piece of paper down barrel channel) for barrel touching wood.
6; All the above check out ? Then remove action from stock and look carefully at the bedding. You will see where action imprinted wood. Be sure it touched at the front of the receiver, and at the tang area.

As mentioned..at this point, don't worry too much about different loads printing different areas.although this COULD be an indication of poor bedding.

b00mer

I had a m77 tang safety in 06, with the wood stock it shot like crap.
took off the wood and replaced with boyds synthetic, loaded with 150 rn nose grand slams and would shoot the eye out of a deer at 299 yrds. like a dummy I sold it. the wood stock was mis-inletted 1/2 inch to the left

76k20

Had a Ruger 77 MKII that didn't group well, took it apart and found that the forend of the stock was rough. smoothed it out, put in a timney trigger (Factory Ruger triggers leave something to be desired, this one broke at about 5#'s), and the gun easily shoots under 1" with just about anything, and reloads often group under 1/2" @100 yds. Don't forget to make sure the action screws are correctly tightened, and check them again after a few rounds. Hope this helps!

sandwarrior

Jaytee,

Lots of good information there on troubleshooting your Ruger. I have owned two, and still own one of them. I sold the first for the very same reason you are having problems. It was an original (tang safety) M77. It could group 1"...at 25 yds. My second is a MkII in .257 and the best I can get it to shoot is 1" @ 100 yds. I have just come to accept the fact that without some work that I'm not willing to pay for it isn't going to shoot any better.

With that said I will always take and do all the things I can to a rifle to get it to shoot better. Check the bedding, check the barrel free float. While checking the bedding make sure there isn't any metal underneath that didn't get finished out. Make sure when you tighten the lug screws that they torque correctly. Ruger's are a little different with the forward screw being angled. When I tightened mine back up I started front and rear with the action seated and brought the rear screw to 'just firm' then backed off 1/4 turn. I then tightened the front down to 120 in lbs.(10 ft. lbs) I then tightened the rear to the same. The reason I do it that way is to get it all seated then have the rear in place and loose enough to slide while the front gets fully brought back and tightened.

I think the bullet choice is the first thing to look at when looking for groups as well. My .257 does best with 100 gr. bullets for accuracy. But I get the best velocities for bullet weights with Nosler 110 Accubonds. Not too shabby on the groups either. 1.25-1.5" on the groups. But, the 110's are moving at 2940. That is 100 fps better than best factory out of my short little barrel. Powder choice in my short barrel is limited to faster burning powders as the slower ones won't burn all the way in it. However, slow powders in some long barrels give it a harmonic that freaks it out. I have with a couple of my long barreled rifles moved to a faster powder and the groups tighten up. They did that with most powders. Just a certain speed of burn rate works better. It can be a slower powder with a heavier bullet or it may need to be a slightly faster powder for any lighter bullets.
Lastly, I helped a friend work up a load in his rifle and that was 36.2 gr. of H4895(extreme) behind a 125 gr. partition. His was a Remington, but it ended up shooting consistent inch groups with that load. anyhow, those are just some thoughts. -good luck

EDIT NOTE: Sorry, couldn't read my own writing. It was 36.2 gr. not 38.2 gr. of H4895 Extreme.

jaytee

Thanks for all the reply's folks!! I am going to reassemble the rifle and correctly tighten the action screws and see what happens. I took some advice on another forum and tried the "poor boys" method of freefloating the barrel by adding some shims between the stock and the recoil lug and tang mount. However when I tried this the first time, the shims were too small and when the screws were tightened, the dollar bill would no longer slide. Plus the floorplate was difficult to latch. When I added some thicker shims and tightened everything up, the dollar bill was loose but the floorplate would not latch at all. So this method is not going to work, at least in its current state. I'm not gonna cut the barrel and no way in hell would I trade if for a M70!![:D]

Highball

That angled bedding is a bugger.

Do NOT put any shims 'between' the front action screw and the rear screw..the contact should be right around the screws.

Putting a shim between the screws will actually 'bend' the action, if you tighten the rear screw up very much. accuracy goes right out the window...
Cut some heavy paper about the size of the front bedding area, and punch a hole in it for the front action screw. Several layers will build it enough to try.
This will not give best accuracy...but improvement will tell you that you are on the right track...
Generally, the front screw is tightened to about 50 inch pounds...and the rear about 25-30...in wood.

dljacko

I own several Ruger77 Mk11's and they all have pressure under the barrel at the fore-end which Ruger says not to interfere with. There is a small ridge in the stock at the end and after sanding it back on all of these rifles they shoot reasonable groups. (Why doesn't someone tell Ruger that their triggers are crap and advise them on decent adjustable ones?)

GUNFUNCO

Ir it is a wood stocked ruger, they do have a ridge in the forend which puts pressure on the barrel. Ruger does not recommend removing this BUT a friend of mine routinely does this and he gets the guns to shoot about 1 inch at 100 yards. That is why people tell you to try and prop up the action first so you can see what the rifle shoots when barrel is free floated. It doesn't matter if you can't close the floorplate-this is only a test. If the gun shoots well (or better), then you can sand out the channel to free float the barrel.

I kind of look at it this way. You can send the gun back to ruger and they will try to make it more accurate for you. Or for a little time with some sandpaper over the proper sized dowel, you can free float it yourself- the gun doesn't shoot well now so take a chance and free float the barrel. If not you can always put something back in the channel (fiberglass or wood putty-type stuff) to put pressure back on the barrel. Worst case scenario-you totally trash the stock and buy a replacement or aftermarket. It is up to you and what you are willing to risk. If you have no clue what you are doing, I would probably send it back to ruger first. If you have an idea or know someone that does, I would probably take the chance and sand out the barrel channel in the stock.

jaytee

Got the Ruger out this morning, wind was dead calm and I set up the target at 100 yards. The ammo I'm shooting is factory Remington Premier 120gr. AccuTip Boattails. My first 3 shot group measured just a hair over 2 inches. The second 3 shot group measured 1.5 inches and the last group I shot measured 1.25 inches and the last two shots were in the same hole. The only thing I did to the gun was to disassemble, sand ever so slightly at the forend tip, and I really don't think I removed enough wood to make a difference as it is still touching the barrel. I then reassembled and tightened the action screws "correctly". I started with the recoil lug and just barely snugged it, then moved to the tang screw and barely snugged it, then back to the recoil lug and gave it another turn, then back to the tang screw and put the final snug on it, then the middle screw just tight enough to keep it from falling out, and then I put the final cinch on the recoil lug. Im gonna feed her a few more rounds in the coming days to see if she holds true, if so I'll be a happy camper!![:D]

GUNFUNCO

That's great.

Glad to see you got it shooting good. Keep us posted.

sandwarrior

Jaytee,

Glad to hear it's shooting well. For the torque on the screws I will have to correct myself and go with what Highball said...which it appears you did. I tightened mine without any specs to go on other that what the screw can hold by SAE standards. I may just go back today and re-torque mine a little lighter. Might be a one hole rifle after all.

jaytee

Thought I'd give you all an update on my Ruger 77 and the progress I've made developing loads. I tried some new loads with IMR 4350 and I've settled on the Hornady 129 grain interlocks for the bullet. Anyway, I worked up a couple different loads and played around with the OAL and got mixed results. Well okay I pretty much got chitty results. I had been keeping my loads at 2.780 for OAL but I stretched these new ones out to 2.800 and 2.805. From my rudimentary measuring, the former were just touching the lands, and the latter one was touching quite snuggly. Supprisingly, the longer ones shot better, but still not very good with groups measuring in the 1 3/4 to 2 inch range. I then worked up some loads with 41 and 43 grains of IMR 4350, case length of 2.032-33 and an OAL of 2.775. What a difference 5 thousandths of an inch can make!! My first group measured right at an inch for 5 shots and three of those were right at a half inch. Not bad. My second group was the real performer in this session. 5 shots measuring .976 of an inch, with 4 of them measuring .442 of an inch and I had three shots in that group touching, pretty much the same hole!!! I wasn't able to shoot the third load as it started getting windy so it will have to wait for another day. But this will give me time to tweak on that last good load and see if I can wring any more accuracy out of it! I'm shooting for all five in the same hole!!! Sure is a far cry from what this gun was doing a couple months ago.

j3081

hi,,,you know ,i own 4 rugers,,,223,,,243,,,257,,,and a 7mm mag,,,i have NO accuracy issues,,,these rifles are FINE in my books,,,never had a problem,,,the 223 shoots 5/8 inch groups at 100,,,the 243 which is a 77v varmit barrel is the best of all 4 ,,,shoots 1/2 inch at 100,,,the 257 shoots 3/4 inch at 100,,,and still working on the 7mm which is 1 and 3/4 inch at 100,which will shoot 1 inch at 100 when i am done with it.the 223,i shoot 60 gr.nosler partitions,,,the 243,i shoot nosler 70 gr. bt's but am changing to hornady 100 gr.spire point,,,these should shoot fine out of this rifle,,,the 257 roberts,,,my favorite with 100 gr.nosler bt's ,will drop a deer dead at 300 yds.nosler and hornady seem to like rugers,,,however if prices keep going up,,,i will try to do the same with speer and sierra,,,just my ruger's worth,,,j3081[:)][:)][:)][:)]

204targetman

I gotta say, my ruger mkII in 204 shoots great. Its a 300 to 350 yard gun. Thats as far as I can scoot back before running into the woods. I will agree that the trigger could be alot better. I've thought of getting a timney for it.....

Odawgp

i had the some of the same issue's mainly huge groups my m77 in 300 win mag

i checked everything, bedding, floated the barrel but the biggest improvement came when i started Crimping my reloads with a lee factory crimp die