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Hand Held Tools?
Ray B
Member Posts: 11,822
I went to a bench-rest match recently and saw some of the shooters loading the ammo they were going to use. Instead of presses like RCBS, Redding and the like, they used dies somewhat like a Lee Loader, but much more refined. They said they get better results because the alingnment of die to case and bullet to case is better. Anyone have any experience with the extreme accuracy loading techniques?
Comments
Some folks even use a mallet to do this, but I prefer the ardor press.
These inline dies from Wilson, or who ever, are pretty awesome at making quality loaded ammo.
A little more time consuming than the screw in dies, but generally make major differences in the final probuct.
A lot of them are cut with the same reamer that the chamber was cut with.
Gun control is hitting what your aiming at.
The short answer is yes, there can be a significant amount of runout when using presses such as but not limited to, the Rockchuckers. When you look at your press think about all of the places where misalignment could occur. Anywhere that a thread is used, there is a potential, simply because threads in general have to have a little 'slop' just to operate without gauling. Start your die into the threaded bushing in your press sometime and check the die by wiggling it as you thread it down. For most instances, it will continue to wiggle until it is seated firmly against the frame of the press. The bushing that the ram goes through can be slightly oversized or misaligned with the threads of the die bushing and the die. Most common these days are the dies that are cut incorrectly at the factory but are not caught in QC. It's maddening to pay the price asked by the manufacturers, only to get the dies and they are out of alignment. Then there is the expander button and the stem that it rides on... Talk about alignment problems! Check the runout on a new piece of brass and then run the expander ball in and out of the neck, then measure again. I've measured brass at 0.002" runout new, then used an expander ball and the new measurement was 0.011" or 0.009" of added runout. Hence the movement towards these 'bushing' dies, but they have their own set of problems!
When I first started checking these things, I was amazed at the lack of precision with this type of system so I actually re-manufactured a press to much tighter tolerances and eliminated many of the problem areas. But what really amazed me was the fact that I could make good, reasonably accurate ammunition for hunting and general paper punching without going through all of the machinations to correct the 'problems'. It just depends on what is acceptable to the reloader/shooter. There are some corrections that can made without machining and will yield good results.
Bear in mind though, that most of us bought these presses because it was the thing to have for reloading, and single stage presses were simply faster and easier than using the nut crackers or hand held Lee Loaders. We were looking for faster and simpler, not benchrest accuracy. And that's what we get.
But then you start considering more accuracy and take a look at the in-line dies for use with mallets and arbor presses. Most of the alignment problems are eliminated but the drawbacks are loss of speed in creating your ammunition and the added expense with some of the name brands. Although, with the price increases by the threaded die makers, the difference isn't so extreme.
I don't look for speed with most of my reloading because I'm primarily concerned with accuracy in the various disciplines. If it takes me 4 hours to make 20 cases and load them, so what. I've had it take all of 1 day and part of the evening to make just 1 experimental case correctly. When the price of dies and my increased use of dies went up, I had to find an alternative. The in-line dies provided a respite from the prices and the time it took to fix most of the factory dies. But now the prices of even the in-lines have escalated to the point that it's easier and less expensive for me to make my own dies. Besides, there's no waiting or custom charge if I come up with some slightly unusual idea or design. I just draw it up and make it. However, there are a couple of in-line makers that do exceptional custom work with dies made from your brass shot in your chamber, but you will pay for it in time and dollars. Some of the threaded die makers have the same service. Redding just quoted me 12-20 weeks and $160.00 paid up front for a new, custom 2-die set...
In-lines serve a purpose and have very few problems when compared to threaded dies. But they are slower. I load my pistol ammunition on a progressive press that I trued up and I can turn out a fairly large volume of ammunition in a short period of time. That way I can spend more time shooting and not standing over the press when all I need is reasonable quality ammunition.
'Significant' has a different meaning for each of us as to what we are shooting and to what degree of accuracy we require. I really enjoy creating small quantities of very precise ammunition for my rifles but I like larger volumes of ammunition for my pistols.
That's a long way around the Horn but I hope it's at least clear.
Best.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
R/
Dave
People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news.
-- A. J. Liebling