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Load Report .308 win/155 gr A-max
FrancF
Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
I finally got some time to tweak the load using Varget. For the new reloaders here this is how I got the load with out burning up ammo.
After comparing all of my books Hornady & Sierra had the same max load listed for Varget of 44.9 and the test rifle had the same length barrel as mine. (the other books were much higher in the loads but had shorter test barrels).
Knowing that my accuracy was going to be around near max. I loaded
20 rounds
5@ 43.5 Gr of Varget
5@ 43.8 " "
5@ 44.0 " "
5@ 44.2 " "
As you can see how much a difference .3 grains can make. I hope this helps you when working your loads. The group went from a .780 to a .382 at 100 yards.
NRA Life Endowment Member
After comparing all of my books Hornady & Sierra had the same max load listed for Varget of 44.9 and the test rifle had the same length barrel as mine. (the other books were much higher in the loads but had shorter test barrels).
Knowing that my accuracy was going to be around near max. I loaded
20 rounds
5@ 43.5 Gr of Varget
5@ 43.8 " "
5@ 44.0 " "
5@ 44.2 " "
As you can see how much a difference .3 grains can make. I hope this helps you when working your loads. The group went from a .780 to a .382 at 100 yards.
NRA Life Endowment Member
Comments
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
Just hope my nephews father in-law doesn't swipe my ammo to feed his 1919A1[:D]
NRA Life Endowment Member
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
I guessing that I am off the lands between .005-.008 (I am still fussing with that)
Lapua Brass
CCI-BR2
Lee dies
Lyman turret press.
NRA Life Endowment Member
What were the wind conditions?
Did you shoot the 5:30 "flyer" there or do you think it was the load?
Is it worth retrying the 43.5gr group to see if it was a fluke; or is .3gr that critical?
You made a great point! What I did was a 10 round warm up so I could get comfy[:D] then Shot that first group, went and looked at it. It looked good then I shot the next group knew I was getting close to what I wanted. Then the other 2 sets just opened up.
So what I am going to do is reload the same but this time I will do it just to confirm the loads.
The wind was blowing about 3-5 mph and had my flags out so that helped a bunch. All in all you are right, .3 may not be that critical for everyday shooting. I feel if I am varminting or Long range target shooting it will make a differance at 300 yards or longer. But that is my own opinion.[8D]
10@ 43.5
10@ 43.6
10@ 43.7
10@ 43.8
My Magic number is in the above load(s)
Forgot to add .3 can be critical with working near max loads!!!!!
NRA Life Endowment Member
If you dont mind sharing the location of where you guys will be shooting that would be cool. Me and my friends are planning to go out to the desert for a weekend to do some long distance shooting ourselves. Just do not have any idea where to go. Are you by the Reno area?
I will have some steel targets we can shoot out to 1K
As for the desart, I have no clue. The best I have been able to get for a location is the Nev. Dry lake beds. Seems on the week ends people (I think pick a few square miles) and play[:D] Ie; find whats around them, make camp and watch the boundrys, but don't know this is my first time out in that neck of the woods.
Scorpions and rattle snakes joy [:D] think the dirt bikes are also on the agenda.
edit for my crappy k-ord[:D]
NRA Life Endowment Member
Justin-
I guessing that I am off the lands between .05-.08 (I am still fussing with that)
Lapua Brass
CCI-BR2
Lee dies
Lyman turret press.
NRA Life Endowment Member
Wow...that's quite a bit of jump. Have you experimented with any loads closer to the lands...might even tighten up some more.?.?
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
NRA Life Endowment Member
oops that should be .005-.008 a sixteenth would be a bit much[:D]
NRA Life Endowment Member
[:D]Oh...that makes much more sense! I thought you might have some kind of Weird Ball Weatherby for a minute there. I just loaded up some more trial and error loads for the .243. I took two of my best loads so far and I'm playing with the seating depth. I went from .005-.002-.006 and last but not least .01. The .002 was too close to the lands...my groups opened up. Now, I'm going to see what happens when I back them up a little bit.
Once you get that 40X set up right, let me know...I'll send you my shipping address[:p][:D][;)]
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
The way I see it, most non-custom bullets will have variances in bearing surface length moreso than custom bullets. This will cause some to be slightly off the lands, and some to be slighty into the lands and still some will be at the lands. This makes for pressure variations which will in turn directly affect POI. I think one needs to either be enough off the lands so than NO bearing surface of any bullet touches, or they need to be far enough INTO the lands for all the bullets bearing surface to be touching. This should uniform the pressures and control POI more tightly. YMMV
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
I have posted my theory on that "at the lands" method before and I am still working on proving it. It is where I start so that I can set my dies and also to keep track or erosion as well as record the measurement of the case head to the ogive. That allows me to adjust for any new bullet without re-measuring distance to the lands.
The way I see it, most non-custom bullets will have variances in bearing surface length moreso than custom bullets. This will cause some to be slightly off the lands, and some to be slighty into the lands and still some will be at the lands. This makes for pressure variations which will in turn directly affect POI. I think one needs to either be enough off the lands so than NO bearing surface of any bullet touches, or they need to be far enough INTO the lands for all the bullets bearing surface to be touching. This should uniform the pressures and control POI more tightly. YMMV
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
JustC...I've never seated them into the lands. How much do you generally reduce the powder charge when trying this?...as a safe starting point. Have you found that most published max loads are still safe when touching the lands? Thanks.
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
Now, take a look in your load manuals (nosler and sierra specificaly) and notice the barrels they used in load work. These are all match barrels,..but probably cut with a SAAMI reamer to be slightly larger than match specs. I beleive that that is why I can't reach their charges with my barrels, but a FACTORY rifle will quite often take MORE powder than they show before it reaches a true "max load". The chamber and throat length will dictate a max load, the books are giving a charge range at which you need to start paying attention and looking for signs of pressure.
as for "in the lands" goes,..it is basically the same as "at the lands" because as soon as those bullets start to move, they are instantly in contact with the lands anyway. You may see a 5% decrease in charge necessary, but I would have to run more tests on my own equipment to say for sure. I KNOW that quite a few 1k BR guys seat their VLD pills into the lands by up to .020" because they stabilize better that way. Yes, the charge will be slightly less,..but 50fps won't matter much. Remember, you can get higher MV by giving the bullet a healthy jump to the lands (the weatherby freebore theory) than by seating it out to the lands. The pressure curve is what is changed, not necessarily the pressure PSI (this is theory, and my disclaimer applies here [8]). When the bullet is stopped by the lands immediatly rather than moving some .050-.100" or more as the powder is ignited, and therefore internal capacity is INCREASED PRIOR TO the bullet making land contact, the pressure will build FASTER but not always to a high enough pressure to blow the action. This is a sharper pressure curve which spikes initially instead of more gradually as the pill is in motion. Care must be taken to start a few grains back and work back up, and I suggest the use of a chronograph to tell you when you have reached the same pressure as your "at the lands" or "off the lands" load. This will be evident when the MV matches.
As I say, this is something that I am still trying to definitively prove to myself across more than 1 rifle. But hey,..I flattened some primers in the 222rem this afternoon, so what do I know[:D]
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
Max loads depend greatly on the chamber itself. I have found that in my match rifles, I can not get near the charges in the books or that others have loaded in factory rifles due to the tighter chamber and shorter throat on match reamers. Also,..unless you are throating for a specific heavy pill, then when using these long VLD and high BC pills, you may have to reduce charges as well due to the throat not being long enough, and therefore the pill has to be seated deeper, which in turn REDUCES internal capacity, and therefore, INCREASES pressure.
Now, take a look in your load manuals (nosler and sierra specificaly) and notice the barrels they used in load work. These are all match barrels,..but probably cut with a SAAMI reamer to be slightly larger than match specs. I beleive that that is why I can't reach their charges with my barrels, but a FACTORY rifle will quite often take MORE powder than they show before it reaches a true "max load". The chamber and throat length will dictate a max load, the books are giving a charge range at which you need to start paying attention and looking for signs of pressure.
as for "in the lands" goes,..it is basically the same as "at the lands" because as soon as those bullets start to move, they are instantly in contact with the lands anyway. You may see a 5% decrease in charge necessary, but I would have to run more tests on my own equipment to say for sure. I KNOW that quite a few 1k BR guys seat their VLD pills into the lands by up to .020" because they stabilize better that way. Yes, the charge will be slightly less,..but 50fps won't matter much. Remember, you can get higher MV by giving the bullet a healthy jump to the lands (the weatherby freebore theory) than by seating it out to the lands. The pressure curve is what is changed, not necessarily the pressure PSI (this is theory, and my disclaimer applies here [8]). When the bullet is stopped by the lands immediatly rather than moving some .050-.100" or more as the powder is ignited, and therefore internal capacity is INCREASED PRIOR TO the bullet making land contact, the pressure will build FASTER but not always to a high enough pressure to blow the action. This is a sharper pressure curve which spikes initially instead of more gradually as the pill is in motion. Care must be taken to start a few grains back and work back up, and I suggest the use of a chronograph to tell you when you have reached the same pressure as your "at the lands" or "off the lands" load. This will be evident when the MV matches.
As I say, this is something that I am still trying to definitively prove to myself across more than 1 rifle. But hey,..I flattened some primers in the 222rem this afternoon, so what do I know[:D]
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
Ok...thanks for the info...Here's another question (just in case you are not busy enough)... I know that quite a few 1000 yard guys seat into the lands, but how exactly do they do that? Does the bolt force the pill up into the lands, when chambering the round? Does this make it hard to close the bolt?
Eric
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated
I'm only wearing Black untill they make something darker
I had to do a little t/s with my .308 and the 168 gr. A-Max's I figured it out that it was the shooters technique behind the scope. I couldn't adjust the paralax out and kept coming down behind the scope differently. Once I really started focusing on coming down right each time the groups shriveled down to 1.4" @300 yds. I was using 42 gr. of Reloader 15 and 42 gr. of 4895. The 4895 is closer to max pressure than the RE 15. I was getting about the same accuracy with both. -Have fun out shooting!
We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
Jim, run some 165gr pills and 4350 through that 06', that will get her down under 1moa.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?