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The ballistics on the .416 sure sound good...

n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
3250 fps with a 400 grain pill, which has a B.C. of .96. I might look at having one of these built instead of the .338 Snipe Tac. The velocity is a little less, but it's a heavier pill. You can get factory brass for it versus having to neck down all your brass. The biggest draw back I can see is bullet selection...most of the bullets out there for the .416 seem to be round nosed. I wonder if anyone other than Barrett will be producing brass and bullets for this round?

Comments

  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Which 416 is it ?? Sounds interesting. -- What is the 338 Snipe Tac based on ? Are these based on the 50 BMG case? -- Just curious....[^]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by temblor
    Which 416 is it ?? Sounds interesting. -- What is the 338 Snipe Tac based on ? Are these based on the 50 BMG case? -- Just curious....[^]


    Sorry...I was talking about the .416 Barrett which is based off of the .50 BMG case...just shortened and necked down. Here's a link to the .338 Snipe-Tac:

    http://viersco.com/
  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks -- Interesting read. -- Those are some thumpers!! [^][^]
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Ronnie Barrett spent a lot of time and money developing a distinctive slap in face to the California lawmakers. Some of the ballistic groundwork was already laid but he brought the concept to complete fruition. The advertising states his goals very clearly.

    The drawbacks that I see is basically twofold (there are more). The factors limiting the full development of cartridges such as this are the appropriate bullets themselves and the optics or vision device needed to provide an accurate method of acquiring and assessing a target. Your plain old run of the mill Leupold ain't gonna get it. 2,500 yards is 1.42 MILES, darn close to a 1-1/2 MILES and that is a bunch of atmosphere to have between you and the target. There are days when it's nearly impossible for me to accurately assess a target at 1,000 yards let alone 2,500 yards! We're going to need some magic to happen in the world of sighting apparatus which will allow us to utilize these cartridges to their fullest.

    You only need to look at the .408 Chey-Tac to realize what an uphill fight it can be to get other manufacturers to create and market new bullets for a new cartridge. The one bullet available now, while spectacular in design, will not carry this cartridge and rifle very far. We need to get some of the other big name bullet makers in line to get this ball rolling. The existing bullet selection is pretty much relegated to the hunting cartridges, meant for energy transfer and penetration of big game, not accuracy at 2,500 yards.

    We'll have to wait and see. There is an aquaintance of mine in Germany that might pick up this ball and run with it as far as bullets are concerned. Lutz Moeller makes these arrow-like bullets for both hunting and competition. His .338 design won the 2005 International Sniping competition.
    LutzMoeller_KJGPulverHuelse.jpg

    Then there is Gerard Schultz of South Africa that I know can design something for this cartridge. In fact, he already has a 330 gr. HV bullet designed and for sale. Lutz may also for that matter as well.

    GSCustomHV.jpg

    These two men can handle the job of designing and making the bullets but getting them here in the U.S. and at an affordable price is not in the cards these days. So maybe we have to motivate Barnes to get up and see what they can do... Otherwise there is a handful of small producers with the CNC capability to make bullets suitable for this cartridge.

    From AirborneCombatEngineer:

    GunBlast.com, FreedomSight, Head Bunker, and others already had posts about the Barrett .416, and it was shown at the Shot Show, so I guess this is old news to most interested enough to read this post.

    Barrett's proprietary .416 round
    Barrett Manufacturing, Inc.; famous for its .50 cal. firearms; will be selling a Model 99 (bolt action) with a Barrett .416 barrel (nothing else has to be changed). It's showing up in ads in California, but not yet (as of this posting) at Barrett's website. It has reportedly been under development for over a year.

    There's a detailed writeup on it in Gun Buyer's Annual #41 (2006), which focuses on Barrett Tactical Weapons, and another article in Soldiers of Fortune.

    Contrary to what has been said on some message boards, it is NOT simply a .50 BMG necked down to take a .416 bullet. Others have tried to simply neck down a .50 BMG before. It always produces a bad overbore condition (greatly shortening barrel life), or a case too low on powder.

    It's actually either a .50 BMG case cut down to a shorter 3.27 length (which can hold 200 grains of powder), then necked down to a .416 mouth -- OR -- a new case sharing the base dimensions with the .50 cal (so only the barrel has to be changed).

    Barrett claims it can propel a 400gr solid brass boattail spitzer bullet out of the 29 inch barrel at 3250fps (using a proprietary propellant -- but at what elevation and temperature?), giving it a ballistic coefficient of .943-.989 (the article contains both numbers), and keeping it supersonic out to 2500 yards (1.4 miles). The claimed energy at 1K yards is actually higher than the .50 BMG (though it drops below the .50 beyond that).

    It would be interesting to see INPEPENDENT comparison tests between this and the .408 Chey Tac, another proprietary round which has been very slow to catch on. At least .416 bullets are not proprietary. The .416 caliber bullet was first introduced by John Rigby in the early 20th century. But, Barrett claims it's .416 cartridge achieves 600fps more than its closest competitor.

    Lost River provides a good writeup on the value of velocity (assuming the bullet can take it).

    This is intriguing, as this could conceivably supersede the .338 LM as the premiere long-range sniper round. If the claims are true, it can deliver 400 grains on target at the same or higher speed than a .338 LM can deliver 300 grains, at equal or longer range.

    It's worth watching, but I'd be careful about buying too soon. I wouldn't want to pay $3750 [the price I've heard] for a rifle and not be able to buy ammo for it in a year or two. And, until ammo manufacturers pick up the cartridge, you're at the mercy of Barrett's pricing, even if it remains in stock.

    .416 Barrett Press Release

    The new .416 Barrett cartridge is a result of the request for a medium/heavy sniper rifle/cartridge combination that was issued from Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center in late 2004. Barrett designed and is now producing this new cartridge and chambering the M99, single shot for it. The M82 semi-auto rifle will be available in early 2007 in .416 also. The .416 Barrett uses a 400 grain solid turned projectile and produces 3250 fps at the muzzle. Accuracy of course depends on the shooter, equipment, ammunition and the weather but in factory tests the .416 has shown itself to outperform the .50 caliber BMG at long range.

    This combination of the M99 and the .416 Barrett cartridge will also provide an extremely efficient long range package for the shooters in states where their 2d Amendment rights have been illegally discarded. The long range shooters in California will now have a round that outperforms the .50 BMG past 300 meters and will give you a truly legitimate 2000 meter rifle.

    The M99-416 package is available through FFL dealers who may order only through RSR Wholesalers. The system comes with rifle, rings, 10X 3200 Bushnell scope, hard case, cleaning kit and 40 rounds of factory ammunition. It will be officailly released during the 2006 Shot Show in Las Vegas. A complete write is in the new Barrett Annual 2006 which will be on the news stands in early February.

    Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, Inc is the producer of the M107 long range sniper rifle for the US Army, USAF, USMC, USCG, and Navy. The M107 is also used by over 47 of our Allies. Additional information can be found on Barrett's website after February 14, 2006: www. barrettrifles.com


    Interesting statistics and data:

    Developed by Barrett Firearms Mfg., Inc. (http://barrettrifles.com/) and announced at the SHOT Show 2006, the .416 Barrett is a .41 caliber projectile capable of sustaining supersonic speeds to the 2500 yard range. The case is derived from the .50 BMG cartridge, shortened to provide optimum powder capacity for the smaller bore.

    Specifications:
    - Case Capacity 200 grains of powder
    - Projectile Solid brass boattail spitzer
    - Projectile Weight 400 grains
    - Projectile Length 2.0 in.
    - Ballistic Coefficient .943
    - Cartridge OAL 4.58 in.
    - Muzzle Velocity 3250 fps (supersonic past 2500 yds.)
    - Accuracy Under 1 MOA
    - Barrel Length Choices 32 or 29 in. (81.28 or 73.66 cm)
    - Rifle Lengths 50 or 45 in. (127 or 114 cm)
    - Weights 25 or 23 lbs. (11 or 10.43 kg)

    The .416 Barrett is Ronnie Barrett's answer to California AB 50, legislation that was passed in 2004 which classified all .50 BMG rifles as "Assault Weapons". This required registration of existing guns and prevented new sales and transfers. Barrett refused to repair some Barrett rifles for the LAPD when Los Angeles passed the first ban on his products...

    SPECIFICATIONS

    Bullet Diameter:
    .416 in.

    Max Overall Length:
    4.580 in.

    Rifling Twist:

    Rifling Lands:

    Case Capacity (est):
    237 gr. water

    NOMINAL PERFORMANCE

    Bullet Weight:
    400 gr.

    Muzzle Velocity:
    3250 f.p.s.

    Muzzle Energy:
    9386 ft-lbs.

    Here is a visual comparison:

    L/R 50 BMG / 416 Barrett / 408 Chey-Tac

    50BMG416Barrett-408CT.jpg50bmgvs416barrett-copy.jpg
  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Now if they would only neck it down to 6.5.....and build a bullet 4.5 INCHES long!

    Run out of bullets, no problem...just use drill bits or #2 pencils! LOL!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    NN...thank you for the detailed and very informative response. This round sounds almost too good to be true[:p] 2500 meters is way beyond my limited shooting ability, but it should also make a good 1000 yard rig. I truly hope that some other bullet manufacturers start producing some bullets (competition) for this caliber. It looks as if a LOT of thought went into developing this caliber.
  • Black Diamond 408Black Diamond 408 Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ECC

    I am currently working on a 408 cal round in a similar case as the 416 Barrett. Currently you can get 4 differnt types of bullets for the 408 guns. 305grn, 400grn, 419gr, lost river makes several and TTI Armory sells several types. Estimated velocities for the new cartridge, (Name still not determined) 10,3mm projectiles 400grn bullets could be around 3300fps. A 450grn special bullet that is comeing will have a BC of 1.000 @ 3100fps. This gun is legal for Bench Rest competion. 40 cal or under. I will be offering it in single shot or repeater type rifles. The special action i am working on is a basic 700rem style reciever, 1.900 in dia. length of actions are 10.5" Bolt dia .850 x 1.400 locking lugs, sako type extractor, plunger ejector. Barrel tennon is 1.500x16tpi Made from 17-4 stainless hardened to 43-45RC.
    Guns will be offered in tradional stocked styles as well as the new age tactical-military types.
    Barrels are made by Mike Rock at Rock Creek Barrels, cut rifled and contoured to specs, basic bbl is 32" long. 1.700 at breech, fast tappered to 1" at muzzle. Actuall overall weight of rifles is unknown at this time. Expect 22-26# on up. Carbon fiber and modular aluminum stocks are availible.

    This is in the proto type phase as we speak, the new cartrige looks very promising for a ultra long range rifle. I will try and post pics on my website as soon as the project progresses.

    The 338 Snipe Tac is a 408 chey-tac case necked down and shoulder sharpened, some body taper is removed. 140grns of BMG50 powder will get a 300grn Sierra going in the area of 3300fps.

    Have a great day!

    Dave
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Black Diamond 408
    ECC

    I am currently working on a 408 cal round in a similar case as the 416 Barrett. Currently you can get 4 differnt types of bullets for the 408 guns. 305grn, 400grn, 419gr, lost river makes several and TTI Armory sells several types. Estimated velocities for the new cartridge, (Name still not determined) 10,3mm projectiles 400grn bullets could be around 3300fps. A 450grn special bullet that is comeing will have a BC of 1.000 @ 3100fps. This gun is legal for Bench Rest competion. 40 cal or under. I will be offering it in single shot or repeater type rifles. The special action i am working on is a basic 700rem style reciever, 1.900 in dia. length of actions are 10.5" Bolt dia .850 x 1.400 locking lugs, sako type extractor, plunger ejector. Barrel tennon is 1.500x16tpi Made from 17-4 stainless hardened to 43-45RC.
    Guns will be offered in tradional stocked styles as well as the new age tactical-military types.
    Barrels are made by Mike Rock at Rock Creek Barrels, cut rifled and contoured to specs, basic bbl is 32" long. 1.700 at breech, fast tappered to 1" at muzzle. Actuall overall weight of rifles is unknown at this time. Expect 22-26# on up. Carbon fiber and modular aluminum stocks are availible.

    This is in the proto type phase as we speak, the new cartrige looks very promising for a ultra long range rifle. I will try and post pics on my website as soon as the project progresses.

    The 338 Snipe Tac is a 408 chey-tac case necked down and shoulder sharpened, some body taper is removed. 140grns of BMG50 powder will get a 300grn Sierra going in the area of 3300fps.

    Have a great day!

    Dave


    Hello Dave...thanks for the info. I'm still looking seriously at the Snipe Tac as well. The bullet selection may be a little better with the .338. It's all still up in the air right now. Gotta get some $$$ together first.[^]
  • BENCHrestWARMERBENCHrestWARMER Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am a 50 BMG shooter, and general long range precision shooter, and TTI Armory USED to have a good reputation. As a company they have steadily declined over the years. Over the last couple of years, their delivery time has been horrible. Customer service from TTI Armory is a complete nightmare. No one answers the phones any more, their voice mail is always full, so you can't leave a message, and emails get returned undeliverable. If, by chance, you talk to a person there, they always have an excuse why your order slipped through the cracks and then they promise to send your order right away. To put it mildly, they give you the runaround. I went through all this last year with them and finally got my order 8 MONTHS AFTER PAYMENT, AND THEY GOT THE ORDER WRONG!!!!! My best friend/shooting buddy ordered from them in July and couldn't get a hold of anyone at TTI Armory for 3 MONTHS, after trying to call them EVERY DAY! When someone finally answered the phone, same thing... excuses and promise to deliver. Still nothing to this day! Be smarter than me and my friend and DO NOT deal with this company. The quality of their ammo has equally declined. Used to be pretty decent, not it's worse than South American surplus ammo.

    STAY AWAY!!![:(!]
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