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Opinions wanted on what kind of barrel to buy
adisonrain
Member Posts: 35 ✭✭
I have a Weatherby Mark V Lightweight action chambered in 7mm-08. I want to re-barrel it in 22-250 with either a heavy varmint or a target barrel. I do a lot of shooting at the range and the 7mm-08 has a no# 1 contour and heats up quick, so after a few shots my fun is over,[V].
OK, I know what I am getting into here, a lot of labor to install and true everything up but I see a wide range of prices for barrels and all of them say they are top quality. It appears that the Adams and Bennett ones are the cheapest followed by Shaw, Douglas, Shilen, Hart and Kriger. Kriger is what is on my Factory Weatherby now it it shoots a little under 1.25 but for the cash it is not the greatest grouping. Of course truing everthing will help. What is everyone using out there and how are your groups, fouling, ect? Thanks Guys (and Gals!)
OK, I know what I am getting into here, a lot of labor to install and true everything up but I see a wide range of prices for barrels and all of them say they are top quality. It appears that the Adams and Bennett ones are the cheapest followed by Shaw, Douglas, Shilen, Hart and Kriger. Kriger is what is on my Factory Weatherby now it it shoots a little under 1.25 but for the cash it is not the greatest grouping. Of course truing everthing will help. What is everyone using out there and how are your groups, fouling, ect? Thanks Guys (and Gals!)
Comments
I've had real good luck with Shilen, and it's my gunsmiths prefered barrel to use. Although my buddy had a Shilen that copper fouled excessivly, Shilen took it back and ended up installing and bluing a new barrel on his rifle at no charge.
Lilja is another good brand, but so far I've only put one round through mine + the 5 the gunsmith put through it, no copper fouling can be seen by eye (need to get a stock made, kinda tough to see how it groups right now).
Hart has always been a quality barrel
Kreeger has a good reputation
McGowen
Mike Rock
etc
The gunsmith that set's it up is more important than the barrel brand, as far as accuracy goes, even a A&B can be accurate. But the only A&B I tried looked like you'd poured orange paint down the barrel after 1 shot it copper fouled that badly.
They all make the occasional clunker, but what you get with the higher priced brands is A) lower odds of getting a clunker and
I'm not sure though that I would change over the Weatherby action into a varmint/precision rifle configuration. I personally would look for a Rem 700 action or a Savage 110 and build it on that. Also, if you want short and long range accuracy, a well built 7mm-08 will be an outstanding choice. That or the 260 Rem. The reason I like the 7mm over the 6.5 is you don't have to get such a tight twist to launch standard weight bullets, 1-10" vs. 1-8"/8.5" And, as I answered in another post, don't be afraid to go with a longer barrel. It keeps the velocity up there.
"Kriger is what is on my Factory Weatherby now it it shoots a little under 1.25 but for the cash it is not the greatest grouping"
Actually, what's on your Weatherby is a Criterion barrel which is a button rifled barrel made by John Krieger for the OEM market in a separate facility from John's facility that makes his Krieger cut rifled barrels. They are both owned by John but operate as separate companies and profit centers and use distinctly different manufacturing methods. The button barrels are for higher production rates and lower cost but are not available to the general public while the cut rifled barrels are for the more 'custom', public market due to the expense of manufacturing.
Most of us concentrate on working with group size and shape trying to gain the best accuracy possible from our rifles using a number of shots. It can instill the confidence we need when we go into the field in pursuit of game. When it comes to a hunting rifle, the first shot or cold bore shot should be your best effort. That should be your killing shot and you don't need to worry about the group size at all since one shot is the smallest group you can shoot. The biggest consideration then is if you make a less than great shot with the first one, you need to know for sure where your second shot will go in relationship to the first shot. Groups show the dispersion of a larger number of shots as the barrel undergoes the changes from heat and the stresses of shooting a bullet down the bore.
The 7mm-08 is a good cartridge for hunting and gets used in some of the Silhouette contests also. It is not meant to be a benchrest cartridge that can used for shooting long strings of fire without the resultant heat and dispersion. If you want to shoot long strings of fire for the sheer enjoyment and pleasure of shooting, get a quality .22 Long Rifle and have at it! The 22-250 will heat up a barrel nearly as fast as your 7mm-08 does. It's a small bore with a lot of powder behind the lighter bullets.
If you want a varmint/target contour barrel, you'll need to get a new stock also. Generally you can't inlet a varmint/target barrel into a stock made for the #1 contour barrels unless it has a wider forearm right from the start. Measure first then compare the dimensions to the various barrel makers contours.
In general, most barrel makers buy the same or similar quality steel for their barrels. Most of them save some cost by ordering a single run or batch of steel from the mill due to their manufacturing volume. The smaller makers order smaller amounts of steel and get charged higher prices. But it all boils down to the fact that it costs most of the barrel makers the same to get a stick of steel for a barrel. The amount of time and labor involved in each barrel will determine the final price. Button barrels are 3 - 4 times faster to make than a cut rifled barrel. Unfortunately, the market doesn't use this information as a cost factor. The button barrels set the high price and the cut rifled make less money per unit. Additional prep and finishing such as lapping and O.D. sanding add to the cost of production. The companies that want to be at the low end of the market don't lap and leave the machine finish as final. You end up with a potentially rough bore (chatter) and the unfinished O.D. The gunsmith can finish the O.D. but lapping is specialized and most gunsmiths don't know the proper methods to use.
Any of the top names in barrel making will make you a terrific barrel and most will stand behind their products. The lower end makers show more swings in quality, they can be a crap shoot. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Be sure to pay attention to the lead times required to get some of the more custom barrels. Plan ahead because a 6 month wait is not unusual. Obermeyer barrels can take a year or more depending on where he is in a military contract.
Best.
ADDED:
by the way, it's the quality and straightness of the original hole that is put into the barrel blank that determines the barrel's accuracy. It's the quality of installation and prep to the rifle system that leads to the potential accuracy of the rifle. The last part is the scope quality and the ability of the shooter to make all of the variables come together.
Best.
Go browse the benchrest sites to see what they are using. Kreiger, Shilen, PacNor, Lilja, Hart, and others....all have followings. You can get a bum one from anyone, these will give you greater odds of a great one.
Still has to be installed (and fed the right ammo) correctly to shoot up to its potential.
My last bench gun was a PacNor, it was great. Am shooting a Kreiger now (it shoots very well), have a new Hart on order...am not a dedicated brand follower. Am also happy with a "used" Hart I got for a good price....
Just buy from a quality source, get it correctly installed and treat it right.
You can do well by picking any one of the fine barrel makers at the top of the list. Bear in mind that the button barrels run a little softer than the cut rifled barrels and have a tendency to wear a little quicker. The exception to this is Lothar Walther:
Lothar Walther Precision Tools, Inc.
3425 Hutchinson Rd. - *, GA 30040
Phone: 770-889-9998
Fax: 770-889-4919
E-Mail: lotharwalther@mindspring.com
Internet: www.lothar-walther.com
Their proprietary LW50 steel is tougher than most and they make terrific barrels that have a reasonably long life when you take care to clean them properly. Take some time to read their website and examine all of the variations that they offer. It's a good company with good people. If you have any real tough questions, contact Woody Woodall who manages the operations.
While there is nothing wrong with the 22-250 Rem., there are some other cartridges that are slightly more interesting no matter if you're looking for a varmint cartridge or even a combination of varmint and target cartridges. The simplest step up is the 6mm/250 which is similar to the 6mm International and now the newer version which is the 6mm x 47 Lapua made from the 6.5 x 47 Lapua cases. These cartridges have a better balance between case capacity and the bore volume, referred to as the expansion ratio. Here is a great article/interview with Boots Obermeyer, a noted barrel maker:
http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/june2001.htm
I have nothing against the 22-250 Rem. but you have the opportunity to pick from a whole range of cartridges as opposed to being limited to a few. Another cartridge for consideration is the 6mmBR which is setting records in benchrest and F-Class shooting disciplines.
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
Good luck with your project and enjoy the process!
Best.