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6.5 Rem Mag Reloading Question
hadjii
Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
Hello. I am reloading a 6.5 Rem Mag, and have a question about freebore. By doing a measurement on the barrel of my 673 Remington, I find that the overall length of my cartridge using 140 gr. Remington ultra bonded bullets to be 3.06", however, the maximum cartridge length that will fit into the magazine is 2.8", which means that I have a quarter inch of freebore. How will this affect accuracy and overall ballistics? Could this be one of the reasons that the 6.5 Rem Mag really isn't very popular? Does anybody have an opinion, good or bad on the cartridge in general terms? Thanks for the responses in advance.
Comments
I would suspect that Remington did it for the same reason, to maximize the velocity potential of a given case. In this case Rem had a case that they knew would never be the equal of a 264 Win mag, but wanted to get as close as possible while maintaining that short action.
In my experience with the Weatherby factory guns, the higher the chamber pressure(within reason) the better it shoots.
Recent remarks and articles try to compare the 6.5 Remington to the .264 Winchester, which was not the intention when the guns were new. Remington meant to provide .270 ballistics in a short gun. Not very successful. I don't think Remington has had a caliber to really catch on since the 7mm R.M. The current crop of ultra and short ultras doesn't seem to be doing too well.
"which means that I have a quarter inch of freebore."
Not necessarily. You might have 1/4" of freebore or you might have a longer throat or you might even have a combination of the two. You can't tell for certain unless you cast the chamber. There are a couple of little tools you can buy (or maybe make) to test the freebore (really named the leade) that are available through Sinclair International.
"How will this affect accuracy and overall ballistics?"
We can't tell you. Accuracy is not dependent only on a combination of powder and bullets and chamber dimensions. It is the entire system of rifle, cartridge, chamber concentricity, scope and shooter plus a dozen other little details. You have to shoot the rifle with various combinations of bullets and powder in order to assess the answers to this question. Some bullet and powder combinations can be very accurate while some of the bullet and powder combinations can have good or bad ballistics.
"Could this be one of the reasons that the 6.5 Rem Mag really isn't very popular?"
Nope. The 6.5mm (.264") cartridges have never had the following here in the U.S. that they deserve. Most of them are just plain outright superb but the American general public seems to ignore this. Fortunately, this is being turned around, albeit slowly, through the use of some of these cartridges in various competitions. The .260 Rem., 6.5-284 Norma and the 6.5 Heaton are showing the shooting community that the 6.5mm cartridges are both accurate and relatively easy to shoot. The 6.5-284 Norma is now as much of a standard in 1,000 yard competitions as the 6PPC is in the point blank competitions.
"Does anybody have an opinion, good or bad on the cartridge in general terms?"
Yes, lots of them! But I don't have the time to write them all down!
I have a standard load for the 6.5 Rem. Mag. in a short barrel configuration which uses the 125gr. Nosler Partition and AA-XMR-4350 that I can hunt everything with in the U.S. The range should be shortened up for elk and moose but I'm good out to 300 yards even with those two.
I've also shot the 6.5 Rem. Mag. in a benchrest rifle for long range but I find that the 6.5-284 performs just a tad better.
Best.
"I was all excited when I got the rifle home last week."
And you should still be excited! The M673 is a very good rifle and you have one chambered for an excellent cartridge. It doesn't get much better than that! Besides, you're going deer hunting with that same rifle and have the opportunity to bring home some meat for the winter. It really doesn't get much better.
Take some pictures if you can and post some when you get back so we can share in your experiences. Some of us weren't quite so lucky to get drawn for tags so we have to make other arrangements if we want to hunt this year.
Good Luck on your hunt!
Best.
hadjii,
"Could this be one of the reasons that the 6.5 Rem Mag really isn't very popular?"
Nope. The 6.5mm (.264") cartridges have never had the following here in the U.S. that they deserve. Most of them are just plain outright superb but American general public seem to ignore this. Fortunately, this is being turned around, albeit slowly, through the use of some of these cartridges in various competitions. The .260 Rem., 6.5-284 Norma and the 6.5 Heaton are showing the shooting community that the 6.5mm cartridges are both accurate and relatively easy to shoot. The 6.5-284 Norma is now as much of a standard in 1,000 yard competitions as the 6PPC is in the point blank competitions.
I've also shot the 6.5 Rem. Mag. in a benchrest rifle for long range but I find that the 6.5-284 performs just a tad better.
About Bullets...
I was looking into building a 6.5 Rem Mag and then thought about a 6.5X284, since I build a .375X284 on a Mauser 98 about 15 years ago. (I had a couple of Back surgeries and on both hands as well! That curtailed my hunting and target shooting quiet a bit!!)
I'm ready to do some long range target shooting again.
My question is about bullets.
I found this site in Germany (It's in German and English).
http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/index.html
Does anyone have seen or heard about this? Is it for real?
Right now I have two 6.5X55 one with a short barrel and one with a long barrel, both are ex military Carl Gustav.
A 6.5X06 would fit in a Mauser 98 action but in the 284 case you could use long bullets since the case is shorter (with about the same capacity as a 06).
Any thoughts??
Wolf
Welcome to the GB forums!
The website you supplied a link for belongs to Lutz Moeller, a theoretical physicist and now bullet maker.
"Does anyone have seen or heard about this? Is it for real?"
Heard about what? Is what for real? The website or the bullets that he makes? What is it that you want to know?
I swap e-mails with Lutz and I'm in the process of ordering some bullets from him. They are a little pricey. Taking into account shipping from Germany to the U.S. and the appropriate taxes, each bullet will run about $2.00 US/each. But I get another bullet design from South Africa and they're expensive also, not quite as high as the ones from Lutz but pretty close.
As far as the 6.5-06 vs. the 6.5 x 284 is concerned, worry not. Either one will be fine when used in a long action. Even when using the long and heavy bullets, you wind up within a small amount of the same case capacity for both and ultimately the same velocity. If you work with the 6.5 x 284, makes sure your gunsmith uses the Norma designed reamer specifications. Personally, I'd opt for the 6.5 x 284 because of the better quality cases although I have 6.5-06's that are extremely accurate also.
Good Luck!
Best.
Welcome to the GB forums!
Thank You
MY previous ??
"Does anyone have seen or heard about this? Is it for real?"
Heard about what? Is what for real? The website or the bullets that he makes? What is it that you want to know?
I wanted to know about the claims about the bullet performance. Not so much about the hunting bullets, but about the target bullets.
I still have Family in Germany and hunting connections, so acquisition of bullets would be no problem.
As far as the 6.5-06 vs. the 6.5 x 284 is concerned, worry not. Either one will be fine when used in a long action. Even when using the long and heavy bullets, you wind up within a small amount of the same case capacity for both and ultimately the same velocity. If you work with the 6.5 x 284, make sure your gunsmith uses the Norma designed reamer specifications. Personally, I'd opt for the 6.5 x 284 because of the better quality cases although I have 6.5-06's that are extremely accurate also.
Why specifically the Norma reamer? I thought as long as the specification was 6.5X284 it should be a standard reamer! I don't want an "improved" or "40 degree shoulder" or "Ackley".
The only extra spec I would request would be a "long throat", since I can imagine a long bullet like the M?ller bullet could benefit from it. AND I like to seat the bullet only neck deep, so I can use all available space in the case.
Any thoughts? I always listen to good reasoning.
PS: I see you are the same night owl as me. I live in northern Ontario....[:D]
The Moeller bullets have been winning some of the European competitions but their lack of availability here in NA make them relatively unknown. Add to that the expense of getting them over here and most folks don't bother since we have a good selection of Match bullets already competition proven for less money. I have the same problem with the bullets from South Africa. As much as I like to shoot them, the cost is prohibitive based on the volume required for practice and competitions.
The Norma spec reamer is designed for the longer length Match bullets such as the the Sierra 142 grain Match King. I've been using the 139 Gr. Lapua, 140 gr. Berger VLD and some of the older JLK VLDs in the same chamber and getting similar results.
The differences that needs to be taken into consideration are the fact that Lutz's bullets use a secant ogive and the Sierras are a tangent ogive. The Moeller bullets will probably need a slightly different throat angle and a longer throat length because they are monometallic with a secant ogive and therefore longer than the standard cup and lead bullets. Your best bet is to get some of the bullets from Lutz and make a couple of dummy cartridges. Send these to Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Gauge, then call him on the phone to discuss the project.
http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/
Lutz has illustrations on his website and some discussion regarding where and how long to seat his bullets. He will also respond to e-mails if you have additional questions.
Best.
ADDED:
I forgot to include this link to a good article on the 6.5 x 284:
http://www.6mmbr.com/SixFive284.html
Best.
northwolf,
http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/
Lutz has illustrations on his website and some discussion regarding where and how long to seat his bullets. He will also respond to e-mails if you have additional questions.
Best.
ADDED:
I forgot to include this link to a good article on the 6.5 x 284:
http://www.6mmbr.com/SixFive284.html
Best.
THANK YOU for the info! Great article on the 6.5.
Thanks again.
Wolf