Range Report, Savage 300 Ultra Mag

Snellstrom

Took my buddy to the range this morning in days prior I had mounted a new Burris 4.5x14 scope on his new in the box Savage 116 stainless/ synthetic 300 Remington Ultra Mag. Bought Remington 180 grain PSP ammo for it.
First shot was on the paper then made the adjustments and next 3 shots were in the bull and measured 5/8" ! [:)]
This gun continued to produce beautiful groups all morning, not bad for right out of the box and factory ammo. Ended up leaving it shooting 2.5" high at 100 yards and there shot a 5 shot group that grew to 1.125". This is going to be a great Elk rifle for my buddy.

Just for info I cleaned it thoroughly before we started shooting it and then after every 3 shots we cleaned it again through the sighting in process.

JustC

what was the reason for the group growing like that? was this a pencil barrel? was it hot? were the last 2 shots the ones that made it grow?

That chambering will heat up a pencil barrel like a plasma cutter on aluminum. Time between shots is imperative. If that gun goes 5/8" for the first 3 shots from a cold barrel several more times,..don't bother doing anything but buying some more of that ammo and going hunting.

STRONG rings and some bedding wouldn't hurt that caliber either. They do tend to pack one heck of a sharp recoil and they will make short work of any scope that has an impending issue internally[:0]

But if she goes 5/8" for 3 shots a few more times,..your pard has a shooter[8D] Factory fodder is unfortunately pretty crappy for the RUMs. These companies need to load the 200gr SMK, 200gr accubond, etc with some slower powders and some hot primers.

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

temblor

Great report Snellstrom. That guns a keeper for Elk. Good to hear of someone having good luck rather than headaches for a change. Those Savage hunting rifles continue to amaze me for the price! Pretty typical for a group to grow with a factory bbl gun instead of target/match grade stuff, but it shouldn't matter. I've never shot more than twice at an Elk at one time, and the 180gr is all he'll ever need out of a big thirty caliber at responsible shooting ranges.The 200gr Accubond is a good bullet and shoots great on paper but won't penetrate as well as the old Nosler Partition on something the size of Elk out of a caliber as fast as the 300 RUM. I've seen them first hand out of 300 RUM and my friends 30-378 Weatherby on Elk. They expand faster and stop penetrating sooner at these velocities, especially at bad angles. The 180gr Remington bullet your shooting is just as good for hunting purposes, and I wouldn't call the first three shots into 5/8" "crappy Factory fodder". Even though I load most everything I shoot, I'd call it what I was taking on the next hunt..............[8D].

JustC

By "crappy" I meant the choice of available premium bullets and loads. The RUM continues to have a small selection of ammo available. If your gun won't shoot one of them, it sucks being you. As far as that goes,..loading is a great alternative. The barnes triple shock and speer trophy bonded bear claw may also be a great choice. If you are shooting at 100-200yds, the RUM on elk is still too much gun IMHO. The speed is too great on impact for most everything but tough bullets. A pill impacting at 3000fps or so upon impact needs to be very strong internaly.

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

temblor

Thanks for just repeating what I posted JustC............[:D]

JustC

I thought you thought I was being harsh on the ammo he used[:0] Just figured I would wee-wee on the manufacturers for loading the wimpy crap they do with the plain jane pills. I fail to understand their logic here,..they could sell a ton more for more money if they would offer more premium bullets. Must be an accountant involved somewhere[V]

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

temblor

The thing is JustC is that the market for 300RUM with the type of bullets you prefer for what you do ( primarily long range target stuff )is pretty small compared to what most people do with guns like that. Most people use them for big game hunting like Elk, Moose,etc. and a 200gr SMK is not the best choice for that.People that do serious accuracy work are never satisfied with a factory load for long, and will soon be searching for "their" load. That's why we are gun nuts and forever searching for that perfect load for our guns. So I think it's a relatively small market compared to the big picture for 300 RUM for those types of loads, and big companies load for the best market share. -- For what it's worth to you, I also shoot those types of bullets (out of a 300RUM, a 338RUM and a 338 Lapua that I don't shoot much these days)and have had good luck with the 200gr N. Accubond in the 300RUM and H. Retumbo powder. But that's not what I hunt big stuff with, and there are plenty of good hunting loads around that do have "premium" bullets if a guy doesn't handload. They just aren't your type of premium bullets. They are premium hunting bullets, not match accuracy bullets. They are designed to smash through heavy bone and muscle, not paper targets.The kill zone on these large animals is pretty big, and you don't need one hole accuracy for five shots to put them down, but it's always nice to have the first two or three group like that. Your bbl can cool down while your tracking them through the snow. -- As far as the 300RUM being overpowered for Elk, I guess you could say that for about any caliber larger than 30.06, and if it's overpowered for Elk it's certainly overpowered for paper targets. You can do all that with a small 6.5 caliber and get the good groups your after. That being said, Elk are very tough animals. Some are tougher than others( just like people ). Sometimes they fall right down with smaller calibers and some times they take hits right in the boiler room from large weapons and act like nothing happened as they disappear up the hill or down the canyon. And you never know which one will show up in your sights. With the high cost of hunting these animals, if you feel better about the extra range of one of these big boomers just in case you only get one long shot across a canyon or meadow or risk going home empty handed, I say use one. If you use a properly constructed premium hunting bullet they won't damage as much meat as lighter smaller diameter bullets even at the closer ranges if you encounter that on your hunt. -- Best Regards....[8D]

JustC

That is something else I find fault with,..these companies like nosler have what COULD be a superb all around pill in the accubond,..but when they offer nothing over the 200gr pill for 30cals, I think they kind of ignore the big boomer guys. Would you feel safe with say a 220gr accubond? I have not tested them on elk, but would think that a 220gr pill would be up to the task but that is pure speculation. Or even a 200-220gr scirocco or 200gr triple shock. Then you get accuracy and bone smashing ability[:p]

I have gone to hunting with match bullets mostly (except for the NBT's which I LOVE, which are basicaly a match bullet with a very frangible jacket design). The a-max is one heck of a hunting bullet[:D] We were sceptical at first, but after looking at some of the exits we were buying them hand over fist. Now, we don't have the opportunity to test them on Elk so whitetail year round is about the best we can offer as far as real world performance. If only we had some Elk around here[:(] i bet they would thrive in this area,..but I am sure the farmers would be strongly opposed to that where we have such a heavy reliance on agriculture. Oh well,..such is life.

Now you are dead on as far as across the canyon shots,..once those more frangible bullets slow up some, they are nasty. But impact at 3000fps at 100yds would cause more failures than harvests I am afraid.



why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

temblor

I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't feel safe with the 30 cal. 200gr Accubond. They are a good bullet(as are the Hornady interbonds)and will work fine, just not my first choice. Why take a chance on one being wounded up in the backcountry when there are other bullets that you can feel completely confident in no matter what the angle, or if your shooting in bad weather, from a less than perfect rest in a strong wind (which happens alot)? To much money involved in the trip and to much work involved in tracking and recovering an animal that large from remote areas. I think a 220gr Accubond would be a great bullet with a great S.D. but your still back to the bullet construction. There are others out there that work better in really heavy game. My preference with something that heavy would be to go up to a 338 cal.(338 win. or my 338RUM). Just a personal preference. -- I also like the Nosler Ballistic Tips and have killed alot of deer with them (and a few feral hogs that I stumbled on while deer hunting armed with the N.B.Tips).But I don't really trust them for anything larger than deer(unless they are 338 cal. or larger - those bullets have a thicker jacket and construction) and they wouldn't be my first pick for hogs if that were my primary hunt objective. They work great on coyotes [^]. I've never used the A-Max on anything but paper,jackrabbits and coyotes. They are very accurate. -- For what it's worth to you, from what I have personally witnessed in the field on game performance on large stuff for penetration(not heard about or read about, but actually seen), after genuine solids, I would rate the Winchester Failsafe as consistently the deepest penetrater, followed by the the Barnes X/Barnes XLC/Barnes Triple Shock and the Swift A-Frame. They are about a wash but the Barnes bullets have a better B.C. for more retained energy. These would be followed by the Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and then the Nosler Partition. The Speer Grand Slam performs very similar to the Partitions but I believe they stay together a little better. They are all good bullets and if retained energy at long range was my goal I'd go with the Barnes XLC or Triple Shock, but most of the shots that will ever be taken out in the real world are at ranges that a few inches drop and a little less retained energy won't make any difference. It's more what your bullet does when it hits that matters. -- I gotta get off of here and do something constructive -- have a good day...........[:)]

JustC

I hope you didn't feel I have been disagreeing, beleive me, I understand your hesitation for polymer tipped pills for big game. I hit an antelope last year at 407yds with a 7mm 160gr accubond from a 7mm rem and it was UGLY. I expected much tougher construction than that, even at that reduced velocity it was still PLENTY frangible. If I take that and apply it to the RUM pushing it at an animal 3-4x as dense and at a much higher velocity, I would have to think maybe another pill will be a better choice.

So, you find the partition to be one of the least penetrating pills of the ones you listed? I find that interesting as I do not use them but was under the impression they were one of the toughest bullets. That's good info,..ifin I get a chance to go for elk or larger I will lean on the ones you find to be tougher.

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

Snellstrom

Hey guys thanks for the information, dissertation and all around good conversation. If I may interject the group expanded on us a bit mostly due to shooters and not the gun itself. I did notice that the thin barrel did heat up rather quickly and the groups started to grow slightly because of that but the biggest trouble is that the light gun in a hard kicking cartridge becomes a little uncomfortable to shoot and due to that we threw a few larger groups out there. I must say even with our finishing group being 1.125" for 5 shots I was very pleased with this gun and ammo combo as far as a light weight rifle and factory ammo go this set up will be very accurate hunting rifle.
I used Leupold one piece base and Leupold rings on it so it would be a tight set up.
Something that I do with hunting rifles when I bench test them goes against the grain of target shooters I know, what I do is after we have bench tested it to find out just how small the groups can be then from a cold barrel I fire 3 shots at a speed that is close to what 3 shots at a game animal would be if you were shooting as accurately as you can and yet not waiting to cool down between shots. I feel this approximates real hunting shots rather than target shots and if the gun is going to start climbing the shots real fast then I know to start looking at the bedding, if it nearly approximates the target shooting group I know we have a keeper and leave it alone. Just my weird way of doing things but it works for my hunting rifles and builds my confidence in those guns, I know then how they will respond in both situations ( targets and hunting).
Thanks again guys.

JustC

I would take that gun hunting[8D] if a pencil barrel can put the first 3 into 5/8" (most of the time that is all you would shoot anyway) then I'd say that gun is good to go with that ammo.

That excited version of shooting 3 shots is a great idea.[8]

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

temblor

And I thought I was the only one that did that Snellstrom [:D]! -- But I usually just hold it to two quick shots from a field position..............been fun ........good luck hunting.......that's a good rifle....[8D]