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How long between shots?

How long do you usually wait between shots when shooting at paper with a light sporter? My 300 WBy will put the first 3 shots of the day into 3/4", but the next group always opens to about 2.5", and moves up 4". If I wait 2 hours, It will shoot another 3/4" group. Is this normal?

I have never been into precision rifle work, I go more for volume.

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Comments

  • fishermanbenfishermanben Member Posts: 15,370
    edited November -1
    Rich w/ a light .243 I have always had to wait at least 5 minutes to prevent stringing. However, every rifle is going to be different.

    Ben

    President: Loyal Order of Teletubbies
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  • richbugrichbug Member Posts: 3,650
    edited November -1
    I am not terribly worried about it, If I can't kill a whitetail with a 3 180 grain ballistic tips at 3100fps, I probably shouldn't be in the woods.

    .
  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    Most any sporter barrel will do that when they heat up, and as you said how many times can you shoot at one critter anyways ?

    Gun control is hitting what your aiming at.
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    The way guys hunt in my area it takes them at least 3 shots to get zeroed in on a deer and another 2-3 to hit vitals. Sad, really sad.[V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V]
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    wait until you can place the back of your hand on the barrel for 30sec's.

    If it requires more time (like 2hrs[:0]) that barrel was considerably bent and straightened at the factory. As it heats up, it tries to return to it's original shape. A cryogenic treatment may reduce a lot of that.

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • richbugrichbug Member Posts: 3,650
    edited November -1
    I am wondering if it isn' a stock issue. It has a laminated weatherby factory stock that I used to replace a plastic one. The groups shrunk dramatically when I did, typical before was about 3", and now the first 3 are almost always under 1". It seems like there is slightly more pressure on one side at the contact point than the other. I have an acraglass kit here, thinking about full length bedding it. Maybe I should remove the pressure point, and bed the first few inches of the barrel and the recoil lug, float the rest, and see if the barrel likes being floated. It has the krieger tube, I can't believe they straightened a barrel.

    .
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    all factories starighten barrels. The gunsmith has taken and centered factory barrels in the lathe and spun them in front of my eyes. they wobble like a bent bicycle rim (not to say they all do that and at that degree) but most all of them show non-concentric dimensions.

    Have you run the dollar bill test after it heats up to see if there is contact? if there is, then that barrel is returning to a previous shape. The stresses induced during straightening will show up as the steel heats up. If it doesn't have a contact point when cold, but it does when it is hot, it has metal stresses that affect accuracy once hot. This is why match tubes cost 3x as much as factory tubes. They are cut straight from bar stock, and then bored, and stress relieved (cryo) before they are sent to the gunsmith.

    If it were erratic from the start, I would look elsewhere, but since it prints the first 3 tight, that tells me it is the barrel. Now, you can remove the point at which it contacts the stock when hot, and pick up a bit of consistency, but I would bet the #'s 4 and 5 still jump out of the group but to a lesser degree.

    Have you tried a business card folded and shoved under the barrel at the forend?

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • richbugrichbug Member Posts: 3,650
    edited November -1
    The stock already has a 1/8" hump at the front of the barrel channel in which the barrel seem to fit tightly with a little up pressure. You think a little more pressure might help. All my other rifles that are sub MOA, are fully free floated from in front of the chamber on out, that is what I was thinking of trying with this one. The rest of the lenght of the barrel will take a business card when cold, I didn't think to try it hot. If I take out that little bump to try floating it, it wouldn't be a big deal to put one back

    .
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Try the business cards first,..it's free and cheap[;)] If it gets worse, then you know to take off a VERY LITTLE at a time and keep testing. The foreward contact point is often used for thin barrels and wthby is famous for putting it there whether it needs it or not.

    You can also cut a wedge of business card to fit at the front and rear of the action with the screws running through the card (holes in them of course for the screws) and retorque and try again. If it gets better, then floating or removing that contact point is the key. If it gets worse, then you may need MORE pressure at the forend.

    These are FREE tests instead of spending money. I have a rem700 with a top off a pack of marlboros from the ground jammed under the barrel. I got it to go together and just havn't felt like carrying it to the gunsmith yet. I get a lot of looks,..but after the target comes back, they seem to go away[:D] Whatever it takes to figure it out and paper is cheap. I HATE to spend money only to find out my hypothesis was wrong after paying for the work. My marlboro top is my joke when we talk about custom work on rifles.[:o)] Hey,..it worked[;)]

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    richbug,

    First and foremost, John Krieger DOES NOT straighten any barrels at all whether it is his cut rifled barrels or the Criterion buttoned barrels made for Weatherby. Sorry if this appears to be strong but I happen to know this for a fact and if there is any doubt, please call him and ask. It is stated on his website also.

    Secondly, virtually no barrel makers straighten barrels any more, it's passe. With today's manufacturing techniques and more importantly, the concern with the "bottom line" it is just not done. As John Krieger says, "...straightening just adds stresses back into the barrel." The last company that I know that straightened barrels was Douglas when they were still in their old quarters. Now that they have new equipment and are using the new technology of CNC manufacturing, they no longer straighten their barrels.

    The bent bicycle rim wobble that Justin mentions is from the high speed turning that the commercial makers do when they are turning the O.D. to a contour. Time is money so the less time on a machine, the better. Large cuts at high speed create a non-concentric O.D. It is not from straightening. The finish high speed sanding, grinding and polishing also contribute to the wobble.

    I'm not sure that your Criterion barrel should perform better than it is but I do know that there is no definitive answer as to whether or not to bed full length or free float or to use a pressure point with a particular barrel. Each rifle and each barrel need to be tested and treated individually. The new stock seems to have made a difference which is good and which indicates to me that the the receiver should be pillar bedded to avoid compression of the laminated stock. I would definitely try to free float the barrel but don't hold your breath on your 5-shot groups improving. These lighter weight barrels are prone to heat disturbances and I would be glad to have a 3-shot group like yours for a standard hunting rifle. DO make sure that you remove any tight places in the barrel channel that touch the barrel when it heats up. Don't count out having to put the pressure point back in or the possibility of full length bedding.

    Best.

    rifleman.gif
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    nononsense hit on a good point. Aftermarket barrels are better for that very reason, the care taken to cut them straight, outside as well as inside. I simply don't trust the "out of the box" barrel until it shows me it is right when it comes from XYZ company who markets rifles (this does not include special order rifles). The high end manufacturers make superb barrels these days. BUT, factory remchester barrels are a crap shoot IMHO.

    I routinely see match grade blanks spun in the lathe that are down into the .0001"s runout[:0] You get what you pay for. The bottom line is that rejects and waste control the manufacturing process in any factory unless it is a specific company such as the top barrel manufacturers that make just one item. Your standard remchester will be enough to satisfy factory standards of accuracy. Now you would think that a Kreiger tube would be flawless, but I hear these issues with wthby light rigs often. I wonder if it is more of a stock or action issue? I would NOT look at a Kreiger tube as a first issue, but when 3 go tight and #4 and 5 go out of the group, I have to wonder.[?]

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • jimbowbyjimbowby Member Posts: 3,496
    edited November -1
    [8D]---My Rem-700 BDL(bull BBL) .223, shoots consistent sub .3" groups after 20 + shots. Now ALL my weatherbys shoot sub 3/4" groups for 3 shot runs, Weatherbys pencil thin high polish BBL and pressure point is the reason for that. Of course the FIRST shot is the most important and WBY can do that, they aren't TARGET rifles by any means, but I think their TOTAL quality is not in question, For consistent sub 1" groups with my WBYs (especially) the 270 WBY mag. I shoot three, open bolt set it away in shade then soot another rifle (usually) my REM. then after at least 15 minutes-go back to the first for further shooting.If you're just target shooting you MUST take more than one rifle/pistol to occupy your time---JIMBO

    I'm only wearing Black untill they make something darker
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