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8x57mm RELOADING ?

MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,035 ✭✭✭✭
edited December 2005 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
I just bough a husqvarna m-98 in 8x57mm, I have some 195 gn. Hornady bullets that just seem to belong in it. BUT my hornady loading book (or any of the others) done list this weight. Any body else out there have any loading data for this bullet? thanks
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  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Try this from Hogdon's reloading info at:

    http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/857mmmau.php



    BULLET POWDER GR VEL PRESSURE

    8 X 57 MAUSER
    CASE: REMINGTON

    BBL: 24"
    PR: REM 9 1/2

    TWIST: 1:9.5" TRIM: 2.230"



    125 GR. HDY SP (Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.880"

    Varget 47.0 2730 36,600 CUP

    BL-C(2) 53.0 2916 36,300 CUP

    H335 47.0 2846 37,300 CUP

    H4895 47.0 2843 37,300 CUP

    Benchmark 43.5 2728 36,400 CUP

    125 GR. HDY SP (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.880"

    Varget 54.0 3092 48,100 CUP

    BL-C(2) 55.0 3026 40,600 CUP
    H335 53.0 3155 48,800 CUP

    H4895 53.5 3208 49,400 CUP

    Benchmark 49.8 3068 49,700 CUP



    150 GR. HDY SP (Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.950"

    Varget 45.5 2561 37,500 CUP

    BL-C(2) 50.0 2690 36,600 CUP

    H335 44.0 2631 37,400 CUP

    H4895 44.0 2619 37,200 CUP

    Benchmark 42.5 2577 36,900 CUP

    150 GR. HDY SP (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.950"

    Varget 52.4C 2896 49,000 CUP

    BL-C(2) 55.0 2962 48,400 CUP
    H335 50.8 2942 48,800 CUP

    H4895 51.0 2987 49,500 CUP

    Benchmark 47.5 2860 48,800 CUP



    170 GR. HDY RN (Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.825"

    Varget 43.0 2362 36,700 CUP

    BL-C(2) 48.8 2560 36,800 CUP

    H335 42.5 2421 37,400 CUP

    H4895 40.0 2306 37,400 CUP

    Benchmark 41.0 2397 37,100 CUP

    170 GR. HDY RN (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.825"

    Varget 50.5 2700 48,700 CUP

    BL-C(2) 53.5 2839 48,800 CUP
    H335 49.2 2738 48,800 CUP

    H4895 49.0 2769 48,700 CUP

    Benchmark 46.6 2679 49,100 CUP



    175 GR. SIE SP (Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 3.100"

    Varget 43.0 2418 37,200 CUP

    BL-C(2) 48.8 2595 36,800 CUP

    H335 42.5 2446 37,100 CUP

    H4895 40.0 2387 36,800 CUP

    Benchmark 41.0 2414 37,100 CUP

    175 GR. SIE SP (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 3.100"

    Varget 50.5 2716 48,500 CUP

    BL-C(2) 53.5 2818 46,700 CUP
    H335 48.0 2722 48,400 CUP

    H4895 49.4 2762 48,300 CUP

    Benchmark 46.2 2657 48,400 CUP



    180 GR. NOS BT(Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 3.020"

    Varget 42.0 2309 36,600 CUP

    BL-C(2) 44.5 2439 36,700 CUP

    H335 38.0 2267 36,100 CUP

    H4895 41.0 2387 36,300 CUP

    Benchmark 39.0 2304 36,800 CUP

    180 GR. NOS BT (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 3.020"

    Varget 48.8 2641 49,400 CUP

    BL-C(2) 48.5 2669 48,500 CUP
    H335 43.7 2557 48,100 CUP

    H4895 47.7 2691 49,300 CUP

    Benchmark 44.5 2586 48,900 CUP



    200 GR. SPR SP (Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.970"

    H4350 49.0 2276 35,900 CUP

    H414 45.0 2229 36,900 CUP

    VARGET 40.5 2183 36,900 CUP

    H4895 38.0 2240 36,800 CUP

    200 GR. SPR SP (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.970"

    H4350 54.0C 2522 44,800 CUP

    H414 50.0 2475 47,300 CUP

    VARGET 47.5 2511 49,100 CUP

    H4895 45.4 2539 49,200 CUP



    220 GR. HDY SP (Starting Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.970"

    VARGET 39.0 2055 36,800 CUP

    H4895 40.0 2178 37,200 CUP

    220 GR. HDY SP (Maximum Loads)
    DIA. .323"
    COL: 2.970"

    VARGET 46.8 2390 48,800 CUP

    H4895 45.2 2420 48,800 CUP



    C = Compressed Charge
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since I didn't see 4064 in there that I know my 8x57 love I would recommending starting with 45 grs. and working up. I have loaded 50 grs. for 200 gr. speers and that is right at max. Another good one to try is Vihtavuori. Nosler shows VV N150 at 45 minimum and 49.5 max. for a 200 gr. pill. VV N160 50-54 gr. for the 200gr. VV 140 and 150 get great pressure but go over pressure fast. N160 being slower is a little more forgiving but is great with a long barrel and heavy bullets.
    Also, have you looked on Hornady's website for updated reloading info? They may have some.

    We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
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  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,035 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Also, have you looked on Hornady's website for updated reloading info? They may have some." THATS THE FIRST STOP I MADE, HORNADY DOESN'T SHARE LOADING DATA... THEY SELL IT.
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  • richbugrichbug Member Posts: 3,650
    edited November -1
    I have been using 49.5 grains of varget on remington 185's, loaded to 3.15". I had to brew my own load, as noone listed data for the 185 bullets either. I started with 200 grain data and worked up until I found a load that did what I wanted.

    .
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  • roysclockgunroysclockgun Member Posts: 310 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Will bullets heavier then 170gr Speer semi-Spitzers generally print better groups in the 8x57 WWII Third Reich K98k barrels? With just clamping on a no-drill scope mount and 4x Bushnell, we are getting inside 2" at 100 yards, which I figured was good enough for deer hunting, here where a 200 yards shot is the exception and 50 yards the rule. I am using Winchester cases, std. large rifle Win. primers and 51gr of IMR4064. 3.044" OAL is about as close as I can get to the lands and still feed dependably from the mag.well.

    roysclockgun
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Roy,

    Generally what I've found is extremely good accuracy...like in the .4'-.5's with heavier bullets loaded down a bit..like 2400-2500. When I've loaded mild for the 8x57 it usually ends up with a big 'one-hole group'. When I push mine out as fast as they can reasonably go I get 2-2.5" groups. The 200 gr. Speers are getting really good groups with 48.6 grs. of 4064. When I go up that extra 1.4gr. and get that extra 100 or so fps the groups spread right out.

    To date the best group I ever shot with mine was a .210(5 shot) @ 100 yds. using Yugo 170 FMJ spitzer stuff that went out at 2360 fps. I couldn't even get on the 300 yd paper (22 in.) it dropped so bad...but it hit the same place every time. It shot a sub MOA group (2.375") @300 when I got it up there, though.
    Another thing you might think about doing is taking down Turk rounds(some say this is blashphemy) and cutting the 48.5 gr. of flake powder used down to 47 gr. and stuffing a good quality bullet in the case. Or, transferring that powder to a case prepped already. You'll end up with a 150 gr. going about 2800-2850 instead of the high 2900's that you will experience with full power Turk. The reason I alluded to blasphemy is that some folks aren't sure if the powder is corrosive. I can't say if it is, but it sure is consistent. Hot or cold the stuff stays within 20 fps total variation over a day of chrono'ing 60-80 rounds. And when downloaded the groups get tremendously better. So, my experience has shown 150's getting good groups but 170's getting the best and 196's and 198's showing in the .5MOA several times...if loaded a little slower.

    Edit:
    Mike, your'e right they won't give it away, even to update their latest reloading manual. I thought I got some updated information from them once. I was really disapointed in their latest two volume manual though. It doesn't even come close on some rounds that I'm working with.
    I got some good info off Sierra when they turned out a new bullet. If they have anything new in 8mm they might still have the updated information available.

    We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
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  • roysclockgunroysclockgun Member Posts: 310 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sandwarrior wrote: "You'll end up with a 150 gr. going about 2800-2850..."

    I still have the better part of a 1000 rounds of the Turk. It has performed well in the K98k rifles in which I tried it, but as you report, it is hot. You say the bullet is a 150gr.?
    Okay, I am going to try that and if it works out in Nephew's rifle, I can just pull the Turk bullet, reduce the propellant, as you wrote, and re-seat a soft point 150gr hunting bullet.
    How much should I reduce the Turk load to re-seat the 170gr Speer semi-Spitzer?
    Since he killed his deer, he is believing that the 170gr bullet is magic for him!

    roysclockgun
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  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mike Wiskey: I have a Hornady Sixth Edition Manual that lists data for the Hornady 195gr SP (#3236) in 8x57mm Mauser. I looked in the Fifth Edition Manual and it does not list it. It jumps from 170gr to 220gr.-- It says the 195gr was a new addition in 2002 for them. -- There are eleven different powders listed. Let me know what powders you intend to try and I'll see if they are listed and post start and maximum loads for you.................[8D]
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  • PinheadPinhead Member Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't overlook IMR4320 in the 8mm case. I have one load using a Speer 170 grain semi-spitzer bullet, R-P brass and a Federal 210 primer that will shoot 1 1/4" on down to 1" groups(off a bench) with repeatability. That's with open military sights in a svwMB code mauser rifle. I don't think you could realistically expect any better from a stock military rifle. This load was worked up very carefully .5 grains at a time and it might be warm in some rifles. Very few manuals list the 4320 powder in 8mm loads and I'm not sure why. One of the best all around loads that I have found for the mauser is the IMR4895(47.5 grains) and 150 grain Hornady and Speer bullets. In the rifles I have used it in(6 different rifles) it will go from 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" with consistance.
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All the Turk ammo that I've checked...and it's been a few is either 154 gr. or 155 gr. I generally run 2940-50 in my Yugo M48BO and 2990-3010 in my Turk T-38. The loads are that flake type powder and have always consistently been in the 48.5gr. range.

    Pinhead,

    I have found that 4895 gives great pressure in the 8mm, I do nearly duplicate Turk loads with it too. I just haven't gotten great accuracy with it from My Yugo(scoped)like I have with 4064. But, it is always right up there with the velocity. I haven't worked any loads up in my sons Rem 700 yet though.

    We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    For reloading 8mm I generally use 4064. 40 gr is light with Rem 185 bullets, I suspect it would be also for 195. About 48 gr is my max, I'd go with perhaps 46 gr with a 195 grainer.. but that is my GUESS.

    Much 8mm load data is garbage; and misprinted. For instance, Lee's Modern Reloading and IMR both list something like 35 gr of 4064 as the MAX for a 170 gr. bullet..... developing a velocity of 2200 fps. No way. Try 1600 fps, double checked with two different chronographs from two different guns. Point being, you can get some great info online, or else work up your own, but regard most data in manuals as a start point.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jonk,

    I find that true with the, .257 Roberts in the new manuals, the 7x57 and 8mm Mausers. I never have a problem starting at their max. Of course all the new manuals new cases report velocities that could almost hit Jupiter... That is until some experts like us get in and work up a bunch of our own loads.

    We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
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  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,035 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thanks guys, I know some of the loading info in the manuals is b.s. and I'm used to 'winging' it at times. I do have an older oehler m-33 that works well and I measure case heads when I get near the top end of any loading.
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