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PACT Precision Powder Scales
Fuzzy Hole
Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
I bought a PACT dispenser/scales combo last year because I wanted to buy American and the RCBS Chargemaster (who's predicessor used to be made by PACT)is now made in China. The load cell in my PACT scales went south last August and I sent it to PACT for repair the first of September. Seven weeks later I got it back and it would not calibrate or even settle down to zero....ever. I sent it back and waited some more. I got it back today with a note from Pat that it worked fine for them for 24 hours. When I plug it in it finally finished calibrating a half hour later but would never stop on zero. It just keeps jumping to random numbers. That's first of September to December 17th without being able to use my scales from PACT. At this point I'm going to switch over to China and buy the RCBS combo. This is simply not acceptible service (or LACK of it) and what burns me the most is them LYING to me about it! Anyone trying to decide which powder dispensor/scales to buy...stay clear of PACT!!!!!!!!!!
Comments
It certainly seems like you had to wait a lot longer than I would consider normal to have pact "fix" your problem. I'm going to suggest you make one more attempt.
However Don't send the unit back just yet! Call pact and ask to speak to the CEO. I have no idea who that is and most likely you'll get a Voice mail. That's not a problem, simply state your issue with the company. It wouldn't hurt you to write it out and think it over a few times before you call. If you get the voice mail you want to be brief, about 1 minute, to the point and you want to make them understand you ain't happy! Yelling and cursing won't get this done.
The ouline should go as follows: turn around time was outragous, product was no better on return than when it was shipped, would like his explanation as to why this went down the way it did, Suggest a letter to the editor of all the Gun mags outlining issue and negative response if you don't get an explanation pretty darn quick and leave him a phone number that you can be reached even at 3 in the morning! This way no one can pull the old "left a message" line on you.
If you do get the return call, again no yelling or cursing, outline your problem ask him to get the unit repaired in a timely fashion, he should be able to pull a new unit off the shelf and arrrange shipping the same day your old one arrives, and ask him to package it correctly.
BY the way your sure you did the following: Checked the package on return to make sure there was no obvious damage to the carton it was shipped in?
If you have a concern over who or how it was shipped offer to pay for shipping of your choice, such as UPS or Fedex.
Have you read and obeyed all the instructions that came with the scale? Hate to ask but as my Grandfather used to say: If all else fails read the directions!
If you have it's one more honest answer you can give the guy who takes the time to return your call.
I'm in sales and it amazes me sometimes how many people don't take advantage of thier warranty. We also need to realize that people make mistakes, and given the oppertunity most companies will fix your problem correctly if they are aware a problem exists!
Now what do you do if this is not resolved or you never get that phone call?
If the product is not to old ask for a refund. If that's not feasible chalk it up to experience and write that letter to the editor and send it to every gun mag and reloading house you can reach. That letter to the American Rifleman might get published. If nothing else someone at one of the mags is gonna ask questions and no one has a big enough budget to pay a company to run advertising on a bogus product.
Which is the point the CEO at Pact ought to figure out fast if he got his job the old fashioned way![8D]
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=247198
I still just use a RCBS 505 scale to setup my Uniflow and Little Dandy. Not real big on electronics where you have to let them warm up and verify calibration. I can check and use my balance scale before a electronic is even warm and an occasional( every 5-10 round) check to verify and I keep going.
I have been looking into RCBS's Chargemaster though for my blasting ammo, in which a couple of tenths of a grain doesn't matter. I load a lot of 45 and 223, can't wait to get my new Dillons(may the one that stole my others ROT in HELL).
I like Pacts cronographs but wouldn't touch one of there digital scales, to many horror stories for me....
It's strange, I never heard of any problems with the RCBS scales which were made by Pact! RCBS scales now made in China??? What the heck are American craftsmen doing now for a living? I just bought a set of Uncle Mikes sling swivels and saw they're made in China.
I guess the manufacturers are increasing their product durability, quality and beauty by hiring the Chinese. (?)
I'm happy.
If you want American; BUY DILLON!
He was terribly upset to discover the bullets varied nearly 5 grains..(175 gr Sierra Gamekings)..
Told him that didn't sound right..got my 15 year-old Pact scale out and found the typical 2-3 tenths each side of 175. Checked with the balance bean...and as usual, the Pact was right on...only ten times faster...
I have many times weighed the same bullet 20 times...or until I get tired. RARELY does it change...and never more then a tenth. Good enough for this country boy.
You did everything you could to give Pact the oppertunity to make it right and, for some reason, they just couldn't.
You did the right things while talking to "Pat" but I still say write that letter!
After all you still don't know if he's the owner or a grunt and a grunt is not going to tell the boss he "Blew off" a customer.
I realize your pact stuff is on the auction block and you've excepted the loss. But a lot of people still see pact advertising and I think the letter is the right thing to do.
In case you don't know here's how a manufacturer looks at letters: Most people won't take the time to write a letter, when they do write a letter the manufacturer knows that someone's not happy because it's 1 out of 100 that take the time to write that letter. When the letter states that they've had repeated problems and thats why the letter was written they tend to perk up about it. When they get a bunch of letters complaining about the same thing they usually react and do something!
Sadly if the aren't told about it they won't know something is wrong!
This is called the "Ivory Tower Syndrome"!
If you and every other guy who has had a bad Pact will take a moment and write that letter something will get done.
This is very much like voting. If you don't do it you can't complain![8D]
PACT, Inc.
2100 N. Hwy. 360
Grant Prarie, TX
75050
Attn: Ronin Coleman
Dear Mr. Coleman; December 24, 2007
I purchased your combo powder dispenser and scales roughly a year and a quarter ago and have used it successfully for about one year. The scales died last September and I called your service department who ran me through the steps to reset it, but that didn't fix it so I sent it in for repair. It fluctuates badly and almost never settles down to zero. When it does, it will stay 0.00 unless I bring my hand toward it to calibrate it, then it starts changing numbers until I bring my hand back and then it returns to zero. It acts like it is picking up inductance or capacitance from my hand except it does it with my hand simply near it. If I leave it on and alone for an hour, when I come back it will be at 5 grains or so and still changing.
For the past three months I have been trying to get your service department to correct it and they have failed. I thought you should be aware. I sent it in October 1, and you received it October 4th. After four calls to check on it, you returned it to me November 26th. I checked it and it was exactly the same as when I sent it to you, except they removed the serial number label and didn't replace it. I called and talked with a Pat, who said to send it to his attention and he would personally check it. I returned it the next day. I again called around the 15th of December and was told it was sent out and I received it December 17th. Again it arrived with the same exact problems with a note from Pat saying he ran it for 24 hours and it zeroed and stayed on zero the entire time. A new serial number label was attached. Of course I'm unable to use it for anything at this point and there seems to be no hope of having your service department fix it.
Back in October, just so I would still be able to use my dispenser and keep shooting, I purchased a used PACT scales off eBay and got it a month before you sent me back the broken one the first time. I have no reason to believe there is anything wrong with that one but noted the directions written in that book to correct Error 1 as well as my original one, so apparently that must be fairly common. When I plugged both scales in and set them side by side, the one off eBay calibrated in about 2 minutes while the one you sent me back twice saying it was fixed took over 20 minutes to calibrate. Once calibrated, the eBay scales stayed on zero for 3 days, while the one Pat said calibrated in a couple of minutes and stayed on zero for 24 hours, started acting up in about 5 minutes and continued to randomly display numbers for the same three days. Again whenever I put my hand near it the display took off crazy. I called and discussed this with Pat, who denied having any problem with it there, and said he didn't know what to do about it.
This dispenser and scales worked well until the scales broke, except for being extremely sensitive to air movement, but I just worked around that. However if I can't get my hand anywhere near it I can't very well use it, even for a back up unit. Therefore I am selling the working combo on eBay and am GIVING the winner the second scales that your service department sent back to me TWICE in an unusable state. Therefore I am out about $80.00 in the deal. I do not appreciate that, and had I not bought the second scales I would have been unable to even shoot for three months. I wanted you to know that this misadventure with your service department has made me very disgruntled about PACT products and may result in letters to the Editors of several shooting magazines. Perhaps you may care to look into your service department and not simply believe what they tell you, because I absolutely feel lied to, and their service time was simply unacceptable.
===================================================================
I'll let you know if I get a reply. No matter what he may say, I have lost confidence in PACT and will not be without the ability to reload for 3 months ever again. Mainly I object to being lied to like I wouldn't notice the scales jumped all over the place. How stupid did they think I was?
You've done everything that could be expected within reason to try to get your problem resolved. Thank you for writng the letter and posting a copy. As a manufacturer's rep. I believe that consumer input is important to keeping a product on the market and headed in the right direction when "improved".
I don't blame you for the no confidence vote to Pact. It's there product and there resposiblity to the consumer to make it right.
I will be very interested in seeing if you get a response and, more importantly, a response that isn't "Canned".
Merry Christmas![8D]
Pact made the scales for RCBS. They were made on the same equipment by the same people. If Pact scales are so bad, why were/are RCBS scales known to be so great?
I had an issue with a Pact Chronograph about two years ago. Fuzzy Hole's experience with Pact's service department mirrors the experience I had trying to get them to repair the chrono. Sent it back, waited 6-8 weeks, had it returned in the same condition in was when I sent it in. I too will never buy another Pact product based on that.
I appreciate the comments of JustC, scrubberguy and others who pointed out some very valid points - particularly I, Shutes observation: "I'll say it again: Pact made the scales for RCBS. They were made on the same equipment by the same people. If Pact scales are so bad, why were/are RCBS scales known to be so great?"
Anyway, I'll address Mr. Hole's issue directly, and our service policy in general.
First of all Mr. Hole has concluded that because we could not duplicate a problem he had we are lying to him. What could possibly be our motivation for doing that? In point of fact when a customer tells us of a specific problem with a product, our operating assumption is that he is correct in his observation, and being forthright in all regards - and certainly most folks are.
When Mr. Hole called to report that his scale was still having a problem, Pat asked him to return it to his attention. Mr. Hole did so with a good note explaining the problem in detail. Because we back our products with a lifetime warrantee we are HIGHLY motivated to not have returns. Anything that leaves here must pass the same testing as a new product, whether it is Gray or Green - if a customer has a continued problem we assume the product has an intermittent problem. To deal with that we'll run it for 24 hours (or longer) to see if we can spot it.
I remember Mr. Hole's scale being here. Pat set it up on a test bench and let it run over night. Anybody walking by was encouraged to check it, recalibrate etc. In point of fact the scale worked great, was completely stable and had no problems at all. IF IT HAD WE"D HAVE NOT RETURNED IT - DOH! This is not to say that the problems Mr. Fuzzy had were not real - just that we could not duplicate them - as we accurately reported to him. This led us to conclude that the problem was in his local environment.
One thing we have found in manufacturing over 250,000 reloading scales over the years is that external environmental factors can on occasion drive a scale batty. These can be physical such as wind and vibration, odd power line noise and RF interference. Most folks never have a problem, a very small hand full do as a function of their particular environment.
As a side note, the PACT and RCBS Powder Master are identical in all but color and a slight difference in appearance. The "new" RCBS scale uses the load cell we developed with somewhat cheaper electronics driving and reading it. Side by side you'll find that the PACT goes to the weight slightly faster and is less susceptible to creep."
On the general subject of service, we look after products going back 25 years (subject to parts availability on the older units). Other then physical breakage we do not charge for repairs. We also back our products with a money back guarantee. Do we sometimes take longer then we'd like to turn a repair? Frankly, yes. Would this problem be reduced or even eliminated if we adopted the warranty policies of our competitors and quit servicing these old products? Yes, but we just would hate to leave our fellow shooters out to dry. We also continue to service RCBS products, though they are well outside of RCBS's stated warranty.
Finally a note on chronographs. We have done a lot of work on these over the years, and continue with ongoing development as I write. I think we are on the brink of finally being free from the light condition hassles that have been a bother to ALL optical chronographs from day one. In fact, we are always looking for ways to improve our products.
In closing, we really appreciate our customers and the great input we receive from them. Are there things we could do better, absolutely. And we work to do just that.
Have a great 2008.
Ronin Colman
Thank you for taking the time to address our greivances in this forum. Your willingness to respond in a open and forthright manner has made me reconsider my future purchases of Pact merchandise. Thank you again.
Out of the 250,000 scales made by Pact, there are only three who are disappointed with them. Well, actually only two, - mrbruce's RCBS 90 has worked perfectly since he bought it and he now realizes it is also a Pact. Made by Pact, just a different color case.